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Comic 1480 - No Grapples

27th Mar 2017, 12:00 AM
No Grapples
Average Rating: 5 (17 votes)
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Comments:

Gilrandir 27th Mar 2017, 12:21 AM edit delete reply
How, exactly, does an android manning a fixed gun emplacement with clear line-of-fire to a target stay 'out of sight'? Are they deploying the same kind of electronic decoy Astraea used to mask her presence from Dr. Silver's drones in the hope of obfuscating Noctis' sensors? Because I am not noticing any actual cover to conceal their presence.
Centcomm 27th Mar 2017, 12:22 AM edit delete reply

Because the guns hes using will shoot right though the dart and the decking most likely. and the scanners can pick her out.
Gilrandir 27th Mar 2017, 8:59 AM edit delete reply
I suppose I would have expected the word choice to be something like "acquired", rather than "sighted" if he does not, in fact, have a clear line of sight to his target, but only has her with some kind of penetrative scan. A nit, but potentially an important one. And, if he had line of sight to her, presumably she also has it to him.
megados 27th Mar 2017, 12:24 AM edit delete reply
It looks like the position is behind the Dart, so they can't see it.
antrik 27th Mar 2017, 2:19 AM edit delete reply
In the last panel it looks like Noctis would need to lean forward just a few inches though to see them...
xpacetrue 27th Mar 2017, 6:08 AM edit delete reply

Technically, that's not an android because it does not even vaguely resemble a human. It would be more appropriate to call it a robot. The unit may or may not have the same or similar type of synthetic brain as Ada. But, either way, he/she/it is still a robot and not an android.

I'm sorry to nitpick this. But it does irk me how often people get those terms confused.
Gilrandir 27th Mar 2017, 7:24 AM edit delete reply
We are talking panel two, right? Two arms, two legs, one head, operating what looks (to me) like a separate gun turret? How is that not an android? It definitely appears to have a bipedal humanoid shape to me.
megados 27th Mar 2017, 10:12 AM edit delete reply
@xpacetrue, a couple of pages back, Francine provided an example of an android that doesn't appear 'human'. Self-awareness here, is a defining factor. It is canon, that some androids do not even make an attempt at looking like humans. They have humanoid shapes but the main thing is the synth brain that gives them consciousness. Robots are mostly straight up logic devices, whereas the androids have consciousness and emotional capability. At least that is how I understand it.
xpacetrue 27th Mar 2017, 2:29 PM edit delete reply

@Gilrandir
" Two arms, two legs, one head, operating what looks (to me) like a separate gun turret? How is that not an android? "

Please, just Google 'android'... All androids are robots, but not all robots are androids. An android is a particular kind of robot. The terms 'robot' and 'android' are not interchangeable, despite public ignorance to the contrary.

Merely having two arms, two legs, and a single head does NOT an android make. That describes the vast majority of robots in sci-fi. Heck, I believe the entire line of Transformers and Go-Bots are/were like that and those were most definitely NOT androids.

Data from Star Trek is generally accepted as a definitive example of an "android". He was very human-like.

@megados
" Francine provided an example of an android that doesn't appear 'human'. Self-awareness here, is a defining factor. It is canon, that some androids do not even make an attempt at looking like humans. They have humanoid shapes but the main thing is the synth brain that gives them consciousness. Robots are mostly straight up logic devices, whereas the androids have consciousness and emotional capability. "

Please, look at the Tech page to see what's canon. It's right there at the top, in black and yellow:

QUOTE: "An android is a synthetic organism designed to look and act like a human. The term 'android' and its derivatives refer exclusively for such machines, and are not used to refer to robots or other 'intelligent' machines."

Even the Model 2-E like Dolly's old chassis and the archaic Model Zero roughly approximate a human body (more so, at least, than merely having two arms, two legs, and a head). At least some effort was made to "sculpt" or streamline them to make them appear human. Hence, they are androids.

I'm NOT saying that Francine does not deserve the respect of being talked about as a person. But if her chassis does not resemble a human's in the least little bit, then the term "android" does not fit - even if she has a synth brain like Ada. Does she at least have a vaguely human-like face? That might be enough to make her an android.

The current, commonly accepted definition of the word itself is that it must be a robot (or synthetic being) that looks like a person (human or alien).

MY UNDERSTANDING is that the existence or lack of self-awareness or sapience is irrelevant to the term. Absolutely, there can be such a thing as a self-aware robot - if such a thing is possible. Just read any number of classic sci-fi novels dating back many, many decades. I'd mention the works of Isaac Asimov in particular, since he wrote the 'Three Laws of Robotics' and he did tangle with the concept of a robot with self-awareness. If I wasn't so lazy, I'd give examples of self-aware robots that are not even humanoid.

And, yes, it also bugs me that the huge popularity of the Android OS for mobile phones has not only made it difficult to Google relevant robot-related search results, it threatens to all but supersede the old usage.
megados 27th Mar 2017, 3:22 PM edit delete reply
@xpacetrue, so Francine drops from being an android to being a robot simply for failure to purchase a facial glamour upgrade?
Gilrandir 27th Mar 2017, 4:01 PM edit delete reply
Well, Merriam-Webster (per their .com site) defines android as "a mobile robot usually with a human form". It does not suggest it must have a close resemblance, nor possibly be mistaken for human in dim light. I take "human form" to indicate the standard bipedal humanoid description: two legs, one trunk, two arms, one head with the legs used primarily for locomotion, the arms for manipulation, and the sensory cluster in the head. And all the mobile units in the hangar (excluding the Dart and CentComm's doll, of course) would seem to fall within that definition.

I agree that not all robots are androids. I further assert (using the above definition) that not all androids are persons and not all persons are androids. I am sure Google provides many examples of androids which bear strong and close resemblances to human beings. Your argument suggests that you don't consider C-3PO an android, while I would suggest he falls within the definition of possessing "human form". (I suspect we both agree that R2-D2 is not an android. ^_^)

Of course, as your reference to the Tech pages supports, there may well have been 'linguistic drift' in the DataChasers timeline to the point that 'android' is now exclusively reserved for those robots which could be mistaken for a human by a color-blind human -- in which case, as has been pointed out, Francine isn't an android even though the creatrices specifically refer to her with that term. I suspect that 'android', like most other terms is generally used in such a loose and casual manner as to mean whatever the speaker wants it to mean, with consequent loss of precision, clarity, and accuracy that inevitably befalls. When you use the term, how human for you is "human-enough" to qualify? Do the legally required differences for androids in New Troy which prevent them from being mistaken for humans mean they don't possess "human form"? Where do you draw the line? Or is it a case of "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it?"
guest1 27th Mar 2017, 11:56 AM edit delete reply
its not fixed.. the gun is on a gravity chariot.. so it can move...an it looks like a doll or human,, (( ohh plausible deniability.. one can shoot an Centy can claim human error.. ))
Gilrandir 27th Mar 2017, 12:16 PM edit delete reply
Possible, @guest1. I don't think we've seen enough yet to know if the gun is mounted on a vehicle or is a fixed emplacement, but you could well be correct.
guest1 27th Mar 2017, 3:53 PM edit delete reply
here we go again.!!!
panels 2, an 5 clearly show the gun emplacement.. it's not fixed.. its a gravity chariot or hover turret ,, and we have seen these before....
Gilrandir 27th Mar 2017, 4:09 PM edit delete reply
I had missed it in the background of panel 5, but see it now that you have pointed out to me. I am having trouble seeing it as not necessarily attached to the wall behind it, and don't recall seeing that particular armed sled before, but as I said, you may well be right.
DLKmusic 27th Mar 2017, 12:24 AM edit delete reply

Weeeelll.... Poor Noctis, So much for the Heros Welcome and the honor guard!
megados 27th Mar 2017, 10:17 AM edit delete reply
Yeah, well . . . it was a nice thought while it lasted!
Stormwind13 27th Mar 2017, 10:49 AM edit delete reply

You honestly expected ANOTHER reaction from CentComm, DLK? She is a war machine that someone just tried to use against the rest of humanity. Someone from the city state of Nova Roma. The same place Noctis is from and you expect CentComm to NOT to be highly suspicious of her? Really? :-)
DLKmusic 27th Mar 2017, 1:44 PM edit delete reply

lol, Stormwind, of course I expected suspicion from CentComm. Just wasn't expecting it to be this overt, or openly hostile.
megados 27th Mar 2017, 4:31 PM edit delete reply
I don't know that I'd go as far as hostile, and for Centcomm, it doesn't even feel overt. For Centcomm, overt would be a gun stuck in Noctis' face, and hostile would be a gaseous vapor cloud where the Dart used to be. For Centcomm, this is polite and respectful, but wary, and taking no chances.
Visvires 27th Mar 2017, 5:42 PM edit delete reply
To be fair, Noctis is a genocidal bigot. Having a sniper on her is just turnabout, at this point.
megados 27th Mar 2017, 12:24 AM edit delete reply
Easy now, no need to do anything hasty.

Re: alt text: So there! :p

That Dart is literally toast. (Totalled minus the deductible)

Those are some nice details in the hangar area.
Gilrandir 27th Mar 2017, 12:37 AM edit delete reply
I absolutely agree, @megados, about the set dressing and detail work. I also like the dialogue in the last panel very much.
megados 27th Mar 2017, 12:43 AM edit delete reply
Agreed on the dialogue, and also Noctis' response.
Timotheus 27th Mar 2017, 2:39 AM edit delete reply

A little duct tape, some bondo and paint, he'll never notice.
megados 27th Mar 2017, 10:21 AM edit delete reply
@Timotheus, . . . and one of those little pine scented dangly air fresheners on the mirror to cover that burnt-car smell? :D
Stormwind13 27th Mar 2017, 10:54 AM edit delete reply

Somehow Timotheus, I doubt duct tape will fix this problem! It might be fixable, but it might be cheaper to buy a new one than repair the Dart.
megados 27th Mar 2017, 11:08 AM edit delete reply
There's an old saying: You can fix anything with duct tape and WD40. If it moves, and it shouldn't, use the duct tape. If it doesn't move and it should, use the WD40. If these don't work, you have an electrical problem.
Stormwind13 27th Mar 2017, 1:16 PM edit delete reply

I think the Dart has an electrical CRISIS, megados. :-D
Centcomm 27th Mar 2017, 3:07 PM edit delete reply

this made me giggle.
cattservant 27th Mar 2017, 2:11 AM edit delete reply

Covering every option.
Stormwind13 27th Mar 2017, 6:05 AM edit delete reply

That is CentComm, catt! :-)
chk 27th Mar 2017, 11:42 AM edit delete reply

Naturally.
antrik 27th Mar 2017, 2:24 AM edit delete reply
Does Commie keep gun turrets in every hangar, or is it just the special one for foreign visitors? ;-)

I wonder though why she relies on a turret needing an operator, rather than just using remote control...
Timotheus 27th Mar 2017, 2:33 AM edit delete reply

Situational flexibility. Different operators and different weapons for different situations. Crew serviced weapons are easier to relocate and replace than fixed position ones.
Centcomm 27th Mar 2017, 10:43 AM edit delete reply

Cent IS all the automated turrents.
Stormwind13 27th Mar 2017, 11:20 AM edit delete reply

If they are in 3C, it could be argued that CentComm IS, period. She has control of the lights, heat, little guns, bigger guns and OMG guns, electricity, water (reverse water flow out of individual toilets, anyone?) and a localized gravity field too plus who knows what else.
guest1 27th Mar 2017, 11:57 AM edit delete reply
..Keyword ... automated..
antrik 27th Mar 2017, 2:25 AM edit delete reply
I'm curious what this bot is. Firefighter? Medic assist? Military? Neither? All of them?...
Timotheus 27th Mar 2017, 2:37 AM edit delete reply

I would guess high hazard non humanoid appearing android like the fighter pilot (crash response probably, judging from the red shoulders.)
All the Pickles 27th Mar 2017, 2:41 AM edit delete reply

Based on the font and speech balloon shape I'd bet it's a bot rather than an android.
Gilrandir 27th Mar 2017, 7:35 AM edit delete reply
Why do you say that, @All the Pickles? The droid in panel two has a colored, circular speech balloon, just like Anne, Amy, and CentComm's doll. The two reception bots, on the other hand, have white, rectangular speech balloons. I had inferred this was intended to communicate that the android in panel two was synthbrain -based, while the androids in panels four and five are positronic-based. (They're all mobile humanoid chassis, so technically all 'androids' -- even though, in DataChasers argot, the ones in panels four and five would more likely be referred to as 'robots', just because they are positronic.)
All the Pickles 27th Mar 2017, 9:30 AM edit delete reply

I was under the impression @antrik and @Timotheus were talking about one of the "reception bots" not the turret operator.
Centcomm 27th Mar 2017, 10:43 AM edit delete reply

the non human ones in this scene are BOTS. you can tell by the white balloon with computer text.
Stormwind13 27th Mar 2017, 10:33 AM edit delete reply

Think you are right, Pickles.
Gilrandir 27th Mar 2017, 11:36 AM edit delete reply
Well, we do see one of the red-shouldered types acting as a firefighter in panel two (partially hidden behind the turret).
guest1 27th Mar 2017, 12:11 PM edit delete reply
NTSR the bots are both firefighter an medic.. the one on Ada's side has medical emblem center chest,, the one on Noctis i kant see clearly,, but has some thing..
an in panel 2 firefighter can be seen at back of dart.
Centcomm 27th Mar 2017, 3:06 PM edit delete reply

Yes all the bots are general use NTSR units they can fill a wide array of jobs.
mjkj 27th Mar 2017, 2:35 AM edit delete reply

You rule, Ada!!!

So CentComm is targeting Noctis...?

I hope Acantha will be fine and well soon...

@alt text: so true...

Stormwind13 27th Mar 2017, 8:42 AM edit delete reply

Ada is the BOSS (at piloting), mjkj.

Sounds like CentComm doesn't trust Noctis to behave, mjkj. If she does ANYTHING CentComm doesn't like, poof one dead Noctis.
Centcomm 27th Mar 2017, 10:42 AM edit delete reply

to be fair she did try to have Silver killed.
Mark_L_A 27th Mar 2017, 3:15 AM edit delete reply

Centie is waiting to insure that either Noctis represents zero threat at this time, or she is just going to remove her from the equation.

And if she tries that, I think Ada will have something to say about that.
Kelon 27th Mar 2017, 3:22 AM edit delete reply
So, now that ada is back, so when is she going to tell the boyfriend the good news (that she is alive)?
guest1 27th Mar 2017, 12:16 PM edit delete reply
.. late ... Marcus is Ada's bf ...
Gilrandir 27th Mar 2017, 12:23 PM edit delete reply
Actually I believe Kevin is her current boyfriend, though she and Marcus appear to be friendly ex-es.
mjkj 27th Mar 2017, 6:15 PM edit delete reply

Yeah, it was said that Marcus was Aya's ex-boyfriend.
Centcomm 27th Mar 2017, 3:05 PM edit delete reply

hey .. Ada likes people! :D
Greenwood Goat 27th Mar 2017, 5:11 AM edit delete reply
+Are you sure you don't want us to protect you from the Roman android? Just a little bit? Disable her motor functions? Blow her limbs off? Cut her in half with a laser? If she lets us behead her cleanly, we'll be able to put her back together afterwards, honest! Or we could... just let the fanboys loose on her!+ *opens window shields to reveal unsettling mass of drooling fembot fanboys pressed against the armour glass*

Noctis: And I thought the late Decimus Livius was cruel and perverse...

>:=)>
Centcomm 27th Mar 2017, 10:42 AM edit delete reply

Takes notes on ideas...
Dragonrider 27th Mar 2017, 10:41 AM edit delete reply

Cent is building up AssKicked points every time around. That is the Head Of State and her bodyguard you can-opener reject act like it. She is not an enemy combatant, have a feeling Ada is going to soon be designated Bodyguard for Acantha.
Gilrandir 27th Mar 2017, 11:31 AM edit delete reply
She's not the Head of State, @Dragonrider. (Good to see you, BTW.) She's not confirmed by the Senate yet. So far, no one has been anything but polite to Noctis' face. (Thought the question to Ada in Noctis' hearing certainly seems a bit rude.) And it would be extremely rude to assign an unqualified bodyguard to a distinguished visitor, so I doubt Ada will be adding 'bodyguard' to her resume anytime soon. Or do you imagine that Ada had time to squeeze in a full course of "VIP Protection Detail" school alongside her Paramedic school and Flight school?
megados 27th Mar 2017, 11:40 AM edit delete reply
I thought that Acantha was underage to assume the throne, and that Maxus would have to be named Lord Regent by the Senate, and be Acantha's proxy until she comes of age. Or I have this all wrong?

@Dragonrider, I think Ada and Noctis have to do some fast talkin' here!
Stormwind13 27th Mar 2017, 11:56 AM edit delete reply

I believe you are right, megados. Still Dragonrider has a point, if that bot opens fire, Acantha would be a casualty too (and probably Ada too). So pointing weapons that way isn't going to make CentComm any friends. Hopefully Noctis won't do anything to trigger CentComm to order her demise.

As for Noctis saying anything, megados I'm thinking the less she says the better off she will be. Ada is likely to be her best bet, if she chooses to be. Or if she doesn't get ordered off. She is a member of NTS&R, which (ultimately) answers to CentComm. :-7
megados 27th Mar 2017, 12:46 PM edit delete reply
Good point on Noctis keeping mum Stormwind13. In fact, thinking about it, she probably knows it. I do think Ada would stand up to CentComm, at least a little. Her sense of what is right would almost force her to.
Centcomm 27th Mar 2017, 3:04 PM edit delete reply

If cent felt the need or felt in any way threatened they would already be dead. Ada would be viewed as " expendable "
DLKmusic 27th Mar 2017, 3:14 PM edit delete reply

@Gilrandir & Dragonrider: I agree that Acantha isn't the head of state, however Dragonrider still has a point... Queen Elizabeth of Great Britain isn't the head of state either (at least not in any meaningful way other than figurehead).

By 21st century standards, there is a minimum level of decorum that should be required here.
By 39th century standards? That may be a different story.

Bottom line though, if Cent-comm is looking for a diplomatic solution at this point, this isn't going to endear anyone. Boot-heel to throat diplomacy tends to cause resentment and create very hostile enemies.

PS. Good to see you back, Dragonrider!
Gilrandir 27th Mar 2017, 4:16 PM edit delete reply
Hey, the dialogue in panel 5 is exquisitely courteous and appropriate, which is why I went out of my way to say that I liked it. No one has said anything to Noctis that could be construed as impolite or offensive. The rest ... well that's <REDACTED>, presumably included because <REDACTED> and because dramas featuring exclusively the actions of people who make good decisions continue to do inexplicably poorly in the ratings.
Keera 27th Mar 2017, 2:48 PM edit delete reply
What happen to the emergency fire or crash team? Sure the medical team is priority, but one would think that putting out the fire would also be important too.
Centcomm 27th Mar 2017, 3:03 PM edit delete reply

There is a group of bots that are putting out the fire sadly NO shots of them survived the lay out stage. Sorry you can see one of them in panel 2 and the cryo haze from the fire suppression devices.
KarToon12 27th Mar 2017, 5:28 PM edit delete reply

Well, so far, the ship's the only thing on fire. Not too bad a day. XD
Stormwind13 27th Mar 2017, 6:10 PM edit delete reply

Actually KarToon, sizable chunks of Nova Roma are burning too. So it could still be as a bad day. Of course some of that fire cleaned the festering wound (that was Douchimus) and at least has the potential for better days to come. Rising from the ashes.
Stormwind13 27th Mar 2017, 5:33 PM edit delete reply

I just realized that you have put all the white hair into the comic you can, CentComm. I was looking at Amy and going, 'how did Noctis get over there' before realizing it was Amy (damn small phone screen)! :-D
Gilrandir 27th Mar 2017, 5:37 PM edit delete reply
Just wait until we get Ada, Amy, Athena, and Noctis all in one shot. Against a white hospital wall. In a snowstorm. ^_^
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