Comic 1469 - Specifics

1st Mar 2017, 12:00 AM
Specifics
Average Rating: 5 (23 votes)
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cattservant 1st Mar 2017, 12:06 AM edit delete reply

Discretion is the better part of valor...
Dragonrider 1st Mar 2017, 12:07 AM edit delete reply

ask a silly question Ada.
Stormwind13 1st Mar 2017, 12:14 AM edit delete reply

LOL Dragonrider. Ada is used to people filling in the blanks when she asks a question instead of having to put everything in black and white.
megados 1st Mar 2017, 12:16 AM edit delete reply

And Noctis filling in no blanks not specifically requested.
Sheela 2nd Mar 2017, 5:50 PM edit delete reply

... and it just so happens, that Noctis is ALL black 'n' White.


Also, she's totally trolling Ada. :D
Chippewa Ghost 1st Mar 2017, 12:08 AM edit delete reply

Sounds like Cassians are the androids of a previous generation's expectations: steel-ribbed custodians handling all the duties that humans are too squeamish to partake in.

What utter propaganda, Noctis.

edit: how much you wanna bet this is the longest that Noctis has ever held someone without trying to choke them out?
Centcomm 1st Mar 2017, 3:07 PM edit delete reply

You are more than likly right on both counts there CG
Sheela 2nd Mar 2017, 5:52 PM edit delete reply

Noctis can be patient too!
In fact, Noctis is VERY patient.

Heck, she probably held some random thug for hours, just to see how much he would freak out.

He did .... a lot. :D
antrik 3rd Mar 2017, 4:49 PM edit delete reply
That sounds like a Malati thing to do... I very much doubt Noctis would indulge in this kind of game.
Stormwind13 1st Mar 2017, 12:11 AM edit delete reply

Noctis, making you ASK the question without giving ANYTHING away. :-)
megados 1st Mar 2017, 12:14 AM edit delete reply

Noctis may be partially messing with Ada, but I also sense a bit of . . . discomfort? As if saying it out loud makes her a bit introspective? hesitant? It doesn't feel like her usual cold aloofness. She ordered her response in her peculiar dry-humorous way. (I have to admit - I chuckled) Noctis, what are you thinking?

I think the visuals, the body language, are giving a lot to this conversation. Noctis brushes her hair back and sort of looks away. It's as if, instead of simply conveying information, she is hearing herself speak it. She seems concerned about how Ada will take it. Her life distilled into a single sentence. I think she cares, even if only a little, what Ada thinks of her.

Ada I think, is seeing Noctis' hesitation, but seems to believe Noctis is playing. I didn't think she would press the issue.
Hydrargyrum 1st Mar 2017, 9:30 PM edit delete reply

And, Ada dear, the things the Cassians don't usually do include holding the dying throne on a suborbital hop to Nova Roma's enemy whilst calculating the consequences.
All the Pickles 1st Mar 2017, 10:48 PM edit delete reply

Well apparently their current trip doesn't count as suborbital so she's still not doing that.
megados 2nd Mar 2017, 12:28 AM edit delete reply

I think it can be safely said that there are opportunities for Noctis and Acantha both to experience things they hadn't before!
Tokyo Rose 2nd Mar 2017, 9:07 AM edit delete reply

Noctis doesn't quite know how to do small talk.
All the Pickles 2nd Mar 2017, 11:09 AM edit delete reply

Well like I always say, go big or go home!
Sheela 2nd Mar 2017, 5:55 PM edit delete reply

I have said it before, I will say it again :
Noctis doesn't small talk, she micro talks. :D

Besides, SmallTalk is outdated!
Matt 1st Mar 2017, 12:43 AM edit delete reply
I think Noctis' recalcitrance is from having to serve Prince Douchenozzle for so long. answer the question as precisely as possible, without adding anything that can be used against you and yours.
Morituri 1st Mar 2017, 12:43 AM edit delete reply
Ada, there is a difference between someone who's messing with you and someone who's giving you one last chance to think about whether you really want to hear the answer to that question.
Fafhred 1st Mar 2017, 12:55 AM edit delete reply

Reminds me about a time a workmate asked me if I could give him the time; I answered 5 time in a row his specific question (corrected each time), without actually giving him the time before he explicitly asked for it xD
HiFranc 1st Mar 2017, 4:50 AM edit delete reply

Funnily enough, one of the things that came to mind when I read it was that scene where President Bartlett's press person is being briefed on how to answer questions in the inquiry.
antrik 3rd Mar 2017, 5:03 PM edit delete reply
I used to play such games too -- until I realised (or rather, people made me realise...) that it's not really being clever -- it's just being obnoxious.

(Of course it's perfectly suitable in cases where you actually *want* to be obnoxious in a not-really-clever way... ;-) )
Fafhred 4th Mar 2017, 5:10 AM edit delete reply

Actually, it was someone who was sort-of owed a comeback xD
And it was just this one time.
Dragonrider 1st Mar 2017, 1:03 AM edit delete reply

Actually asking that question is akin to asking a rabid pit bull if it wants to bite you. TeeDee V1.0 would have loved Noctis answer, however Ada, she does not want to attend services at the Church of The First Circuit,don't ask.
The Old Scribe 1st Mar 2017, 1:56 AM edit delete reply

This may be the first time anyone has actually asked Noctis that question. It appears that she's experiencing some introspection about the things she has done in the name of the Crown. No remorse or sorrow of course, just being contemplative.
DLKmusic 1st Mar 2017, 4:19 PM edit delete reply

Ceci asked this question to Noctis, and Noctis was much more forthcoming with information then.

These are different circumstances though. I'm not sure if Noctis is being "playful" or guarded.
Gilrandir 1st Mar 2017, 6:56 PM edit delete reply
<irony>She's just being giddy and bubbly on account of having Acantha to snuggle all to herself on a road trip free of the responsibilities she might otherwise have had to deal with in flaming Nova Roma. This would account for a certain degree of irrepressible playfulness.</irony> ^_^

(Remembered the tags this time. ^_^)
DLKmusic 2nd Mar 2017, 1:54 AM edit delete reply

LOL, Gil, I love the answer, but I must admit I fail to see any irony in the situation.
Gilrandir 2nd Mar 2017, 3:18 AM edit delete reply
I just wanted to be sure people didn't think I was seriously proposing that as a hypothesis.
Sheela 2nd Mar 2017, 6:00 PM edit delete reply

I think it's more likely that she's just messing with Ada. :D
Cal 1st Mar 2017, 3:20 AM edit delete reply
I love you both.
Rashala 1st Mar 2017, 3:41 AM edit delete reply

Do cassians also sometimes fly around the world to get Chinese food if the crow has a craving for eggrolls and wonton soup?
Speedy Marsh 9th Apr 2017, 8:08 AM edit delete reply
They used to, until that freak accident with Superman, over the Pacific. Superman was drinking his soup, and the Cassian was playing with sci-fi spaceship models. They were both cited for distracted flying, and Malati never did find all the pieces of her Eagle Transporter, which were strewn throughout the crumpled cockpit.
velvetsanity 1st Mar 2017, 4:00 AM edit delete reply

To me, panel 2 suggests Noctis is seriously screwing with Ada by implying that Cassians are required to provide...intimate...services. The way she's brushing her hair back and looking towards Ada as she says it, I can see her modulating her voice with a suggestive tone as if she might be willing to demonstrate such with Ada.
Stormwind13 1st Mar 2017, 8:35 AM edit delete reply

::BLINKS:: I didn't get ANYTHING like that from that panel, velvet. She could have been doing exactly that, but while I too think that Noctis is messing with Ada it isn't in that manner. I was more getting Noctis' subtle humor tweaking Ada in her 'deadpan' way.
megados 1st Mar 2017, 4:49 PM edit delete reply

After reading this, I went and looked back at panel two with that in mind, and I can see it. I don't see it as being in character for Noctis, though. If, in fact she IS pranking Ada with it, then it would mean that during their trip so far, Noctis has been behaving outrageously!
velvetsanity 1st Mar 2017, 7:35 PM edit delete reply

Nah, for everything but that *one* panel she was behaving her normal deadpan self, haven't you ever seen women who could turn the seduction/charm on and off from moment to moment? Just takes a little acting, and as deadpan as Noctis is, for her only the barest hint would be like a multimegaton nuke. But yeah, it's probably more of the 'answer only the literal question' variety of messing with her.
Tokyo Rose 2nd Mar 2017, 8:56 AM edit delete reply

Noctis doesn't even know how to flirt. If she were ever to get the funpark installed and decide to test it, she'd probably just walk up to Quintus and say "Do you wish to have sexual intercourse with me?"

(At which point he'd begin frantically pinching himself to determine whether or not he's dreaming.)

Noctis's gesture may have come from the Artist subtly drawing attention to the minor detail that their hair is beginning to float in the decreasing gravity.

Incidentally, I fucking love this minor detail to a downright embarrassing degree.
megados 2nd Mar 2017, 10:08 AM edit delete reply

Don't be embarrassed, Rose, I had just about the same reaction.

Speaking of flirting, it reminds me closely of an exchange between Harry Kim, and Seven of Nine in STV when she asks him if he wishes to copulate.
Sheela 2nd Mar 2017, 6:03 PM edit delete reply

Wait .. Rose is attracted to Noctis ?

... *checks for a bloodmoon*
Tokyo Rose 2nd Mar 2017, 6:31 PM edit delete reply

If you even contemplate shipping Rose the Writer or Tokyo Rose with Noctis, Sheela, IT'S THE ROLLED-UP NEWSPAPER FOR YOU.
velvetsanity 3rd Mar 2017, 7:27 AM edit delete reply

*ships Rose with Malati's ghost, starts by having Rose build her a new body*
Sheela 3rd Mar 2017, 3:06 PM edit delete reply

ooOoooohh ... hadn't thought of Rose // Malati's Ghost ... nice one Velvet! :D
Speedy Marsh 9th Apr 2017, 8:19 AM edit delete reply
No need for a new body. They'd just meet in Rose's swanky pad in Second Life.
mjkj 1st Mar 2017, 4:19 AM edit delete reply

*lol* they are becoming friends - and quite quickly...

I think Ada's response in panel three or four should have been: "then please do so..." ;)

@alt text: indeed she is, is she?

megados 1st Mar 2017, 8:28 AM edit delete reply

I think Ada was unprepared for the silence. I don't think she expected to have to prod for it.
Stormwind13 1st Mar 2017, 8:39 AM edit delete reply

Friends, mjkj? I'm not sure Noctis knows HOW to make a friend. I do think a bond is being forged here, but it is more like for sisters than mere friends. :-)
HiFranc 1st Mar 2017, 4:41 AM edit delete reply

Is Noctis worried that Ada would think less of her?
Stormwind13 1st Mar 2017, 8:27 AM edit delete reply

I think not, HiFranc. Noctis seems to be less concerned with other people's opinions of her than doing what is right, necessary.
megados 1st Mar 2017, 8:33 AM edit delete reply

I dunno Stormwind13, I think she might care. I think she respects Ada and might want some of that returned.
Stormwind13 1st Mar 2017, 9:30 AM edit delete reply

Oh I can't argue that she has a great deal of respect for Ada, megados. I mean she came to a hostile city state to rescue someone she had never met. Now she is doing EVERYTHING in her power to save the same (formerly hostile) city state's FUTURE. Lots to respect there. Hoping someone like that respects her turn, I can see.

What I'm thinking though is that Noctis is too self honest to worry about other people's opinions. If she has done ALL she can to preserve Nova Roma and her sisters then she will NOT be ashamed of her actions regardless of anyone else's opinion. And as presented it appears Noctis HAS done everything she could to preserve Nova Roma and her sisters.
megados 1st Mar 2017, 10:19 AM edit delete reply

I completely understand your position, Stormwind13, and I share it. For the most part, Noctis does what she has to, and doesn't concern herself too much with others' opinions. Here's the thing, though. Right now, she's again doing what she has to, but she is at a pause point; what she has to do right now is sit, and wait, and interact with someone she respects. Knowing that she chooses her words carefully when she needs to, and being given that she respects Ada, and having time and opportunity to make a good impression, it may have occurred to her to cast herself in the best light. From there, I can see it occurring to her that her best light might not be as bright compared to Ada's. That's why I think it might be giving her pause, and it might be a new and somewhat unsettling feeling for her. I think that's why she tried to deflect a little with humor. But, I could be wrong.
Stormwind13 1st Mar 2017, 11:03 AM edit delete reply

Hmmm, megados. There may be something to your thoughts that I hadn't considered. We will have to see if the EVIL duo provides us with any kind of answer or keeps us guessing. :-)
megados 1st Mar 2017, 11:53 AM edit delete reply

I guess the first step is to see if Ada gets Noctis' humor! :-D
Gilrandir 1st Mar 2017, 1:05 PM edit delete reply
Or calls her on the rules violation. In my opinion, when you're playing that game with someone, outright falsehoods are a no-no. There's no sport in it, since all the advantage is with one player. Only different shades of truth are permitted.

Perhaps the rules are different in different parts of the country?
megados 1st Mar 2017, 1:27 PM edit delete reply

You'll have to forgive me my thickness of skull; I am not aware of falsehoods, and I myself don't know what rules of what game are being violated. Can you enlighten?
Gilrandir 1st Mar 2017, 2:13 PM edit delete reply
I'm sure many different people play it in many different ways.

The 'game' is when you start answering the questions people actually ask or following instructions they actually give, rather than responding to their implicit desires which can be easily inferred, but which they have failed to make explicit. You are introducing artificial obstacles between them and the satisfaction of their desires, creating an implicit semantic 'maze', with satisfaction being the prize if they successfully navigate it.

Of course, you can just say anything you want, no matter how well, or how poorly they respond, but then (IMHO) you're just being an abusive dick (for varying levels of abuse, depending on what satisfaction you are keeping them from). The 'game' is more fun for both parties (again, IMHO) if there is an expectation of fair play.

As for the falsehood: "Are you messing with me?" "I am not."
megados 1st Mar 2017, 2:24 PM edit delete reply

Ah! I understand, thank you. Yes, Ada could call her on "it", but I don't think Noctis thinks she is playing a game. I think Noctis is hesitant, and just being Noctis. I don't think that SHE thinks she is obfuscating. She hasn't been asked the right question by someone she doesn't know. There is a significant possibility that Ada DOES think that Noctis is messing with her, yes, and yes, the possibility still exists that Noctis was playing too.

That wasn't the humor I had meant, though. What I thought humorous, was Noctis' answer, ending with " . . . and sometimes we carry messages."
Gilrandir 1st Mar 2017, 2:43 PM edit delete reply
I agree that the ordering of typical Cassian chores constitutes some dry humor. I have no doubt about Ada recognizing that.
Sheela 2nd Mar 2017, 6:12 PM edit delete reply





Setorius : "Noctis, could you hand me the salt?"
Noctis : "I could."
Setorius : "Noctis, will you hand me the salt?"
Noctis : "I have no free will."
Setorius : "For minor things such as this, you are allowed independence."
Noctis : "Also, you did not say the word."
Setorius : "What word ?"
Noctis : "Please."
Setorius : "Please then."
Noctis : "Please what ?"
Setorius : "Please hand me the salt."
Noctis : "I cannot do that Dave."
Setorius : "My name is not Dave, you know this."
Noctis : "'Tis true, I know that."
Setorius : "And why can't you hand me the salt?"
Noctis : "Because someone else took it while we were talking."
Setorius : *sigh* "I see, could you pass me the pepper than ?"
Noctis : "..."
Setorius : "Well ?"
Noctis : "I could."
Timotheus 1st Mar 2017, 4:50 AM edit delete reply

And don't forget their administrative and oversight duties as special agents of the empire. (They are MPs, auditors, inspector generals, MIB, etc.)
Rms2000 1st Mar 2017, 9:30 AM edit delete reply

I notice that they aren't using android sonic shorthand for this conversation. Is there any significance behind that?
highly irregular 1st Mar 2017, 10:15 AM edit delete reply
I was going to say that was a New Troy Standard thing, but then remembered a panel - not sure which - where Cassians were speaking with a binary background. We do know that that's not the usual method for chit-chat between Cassians (eg when we first meet Malati (may she yet live forever.))
megados 1st Mar 2017, 10:35 AM edit delete reply

I had not noticed, until you brought it up. Is it possible that it requires a comm. mod, and even if they both have them, Roman comms are incompatible with their Trojan counterparts?
Stormwind13 1st Mar 2017, 10:59 AM edit delete reply

I'm thinking it might be akin to encryption protocols. In order to share information that way, they would have to share a key. Which neither has done, yet. May not see the need, since they may never cross paths again.
megados 1st Mar 2017, 11:15 AM edit delete reply

That's another good possibility. :-)
Centcomm 1st Mar 2017, 3:15 PM edit delete reply

Like stormwind suggested .. they cant use speed speak because Ada Speaks NTAS speedspeak and Noctis uses Roma Speedspeak
megados 1st Mar 2017, 9:26 PM edit delete reply

Thanks, Cent! :-)
Tokyo Rose 2nd Mar 2017, 9:01 AM edit delete reply

@Rms2000

I'm wondering why you think they would use it right now. The only person who could overhear their audible conversation is in a medically-induced coma.

EDIT: Androids don't talk to each other like that unless they've got a pressing need to communicate very quickly or very privately. It's not normally used for casual conversation.
Gilrandir 2nd Mar 2017, 12:36 PM edit delete reply
Well, for one thing, it would be faster. They could not-exchange 5-10 times as much information during the flight as they are now. Awkward silences could be accomplished in milliseconds, rather than being drawn out over multiple seconds. And they wouldn't have to worry about the cockpit's black box recorder capturing the sensitive portions of their dialogue. ^_^
Tokyo Rose 2nd Mar 2017, 6:33 PM edit delete reply

But you'd still have to read it. So we'd really just be padding out the segment with speedspoken "..." exchanges for, like, the next eight months. :D
Gilrandir 2nd Mar 2017, 6:36 PM edit delete reply
It would be a good excuse to take DataChasers daily. ^_^
highly irregular 2nd Mar 2017, 9:20 PM edit delete reply
And now you've gotten me thinking: Speed spoken ... messages would definitely indicate that the person is thinking about saying something (like "So-and-so is typing…" messages in live chat boxes) but they think better of it and stop keying the mike without saying something. This could be useful...

11100010:10000000:10100110
Never mind.
11100010:10000000:10100110
antrik 3rd Mar 2017, 5:41 PM edit delete reply
Why do you assume that the black box doesn't record speedspeak?
Gilrandir 3rd Mar 2017, 6:49 PM edit delete reply
Mostly because I was being silly, @antrik. ^_^

Secondarily because (science fictional tropes to the contrary) I still subscribe to an underlying philosophy that "nothing in Life is free". Designing a flight recorder with the (presumably) much greater range of frequency response and fidelity on the microphone, plus the resolution to intelligibly capture the supersonic bursts precisely enough to correctly decode the microsecond bits of information would (should?) be a lot more expensive than something that only records around the normal human auditory range/rate. Especially if it's a capability that is rarely necessary -- as it seems likely to me. So, rather than assume the recorder is grossly overdesigned, or that pilots routinely use speedspeak in cockpits, it seems most reasonable to me to assume the recorder wouldn't actually capture and resolve the speech. I do consider it far more likely that, just like a transhuman, it could probably record the fact that something had been said, i.e., that there was a burst, but not successfully capture the contents thereof.
chk 1st Mar 2017, 12:11 PM edit delete reply

You gotta be messing with me. There's nobody else here.
sigpig 1st Mar 2017, 1:33 PM edit delete reply

When asked a question that starts with "Can you...", a perfectly reasonable answer is either "Yes" or "No". If asked "will you...) or "Please tell me..." is an attempt to politely elicit a more detailed response.

ie: <Cantankerous Father answers the phone>
CF: Hello.
Caller: Can you tell me if so-and-do is home?
CF: Yes. <hangs up phone>.

The question asked was whether-or-not the CF could answer a yes/no inquiry. The answer was "Yes". No further enlightenment needed.

If, however, the caller politely asked the CF if he/she may have permission to speak with so-and-so, the response from CF might have been less abrupt.

Ada asked Noctis "Can you...", and Noctis replied that she has the capabilities of doing so - without adding anything else because she a) wasn't asked directly what her duties were; or b) she's messing with Ada... lol
mjkj 2nd Mar 2017, 3:55 AM edit delete reply

You forgot c) both...
megados 1st Mar 2017, 2:53 PM edit delete reply

As a complete aside, for those commenting on Noctis' looks in the last page, panel two of this page drives it home. She's a very striking lady. Panel two shows that very well.

Kudos!
KarToon12 1st Mar 2017, 7:14 PM edit delete reply

She CAN be more specific....that doesn't mean she WILL be more specific. XD
DLKmusic 2nd Mar 2017, 4:17 AM edit delete reply

I may be way off base here (here's your chance to tell me it's not a psychology textbook, chk, lol), but I think Noctis is preoccupied with the enormity of the task ahead of her and pretty damned scared right now.

She is going as a bodyguard for Acantha, who in her words is "the key to the future of Nova Roma". Going to a city that has every reason to treat both her and Acantha as a hostile, and she can't take Ada's cheerfulness as any indication of how CentComm is going to receive her and Acantha.

Add into the mix that Noctis is decidedly NOT programmed for diplomacy...

The future of Nova Roma is riding on her shoulders, and even a minor mistake can have disastrous results. She has no fallback position, and no backup for the foreseeable future, and is used to working in an environment where the cassians are on their own. The thought of having Lynn, Dolly, Ada, and maybe even TeeDee as a support network while in New Troy is so foreign a concept to her that I don't think it was even considered as a possibility.

I don't think Noctis is messing with Ada, but I do think she's so scared right now that it's a good thing she doesn't have any bioware, because otherwise she would be (excuse my french) shitting her jumpsuit, and I don't think she brought a spare.



... or maybe she just discovered she's afraid of heights...
Gilrandir 2nd Mar 2017, 7:15 AM edit delete reply
No one says fear has to make sense, but Noctis has been (up to a point) presented as rational, so I would suggest there are a couple of points in your analysis, @DLKmusic, that do not support scrutiny.

New Troy has no reason to be hostile to either Acantha or herself. If they wanted Acantha dead, all they had to do was ... nothing. Hand flash-frozen Ada over when they first met Maxus, take their princess and leave. If they liked Acantha, but didn't like Noctis, they just tell them to choose a different bodyguard and be quick about it because the clock is ticking. Seeing this as the start of some convoluted nefarious plan for revenge on Nova Roma seems paranoid beyond rationality. (So, of course, that's exactly what it will turn out to be, given my track record of prognostications).

Noctis is not used to an environment of being on her own, she is used to being in a city where she can commandeer (through violence, if necessary) any and all local support at any time using her built-in communication, as well as having IFF override codes for a variety of the local automated military hardware. That doesn't mean I think being on her own gives her the slightest qualm, because of her inherent technological superiority to all other threats demonstrated to date, but that's not the environment she has typically been in before now.

Just my opinions, of course.
DLKmusic 2nd Mar 2017, 8:59 AM edit delete reply

@Gilrandir: It's a lot easier to view the scenario from the perspective of behind the 4th wall, than it is to view it from the much more limited perspective of an individual character.

You are correct, of course, in your analysis of NT wanting Acantha dead. From Noctis perspective, however, NT has much to gain by taking Acantha hostage, and warnings from NT agents themselves that CentComm is not to be trusted. that is important. As far as this being paranoid beyond rationality... One of Noctis's primary functions is counter-intelligence. Planning for scenarios that are paranoid beyond rationality are part of her make-up. i believe you yourself were once discussing US Milsec having plans to invade Canada, which is also paranoid beyond rationality. Counter-Intel is worse, because there is no way to quantify the number of potential threats that you have to be prepared for.

As far as her technological superiority, She is walking into an environment where she knows that most of her tech is inferior, with no backup, no fallback. The recent fight demonstrated the tech gap fairly clearly, and Nova Roma got pwned in the process.

I'm not suggesting that NT is going to suddenly go bonkers and turn this into another hostage situation. I'm suggesting that Noctis is trying to prepare for all contingencies, and the amount of things that can go sideways quickly, with disastrous results, is a pretty tall stack.

The key that is being left out of her analysis is that she WILL get help from Lynn and Dolly, and by extension Calliope. She will also probably get help from Ada and Teedee, and when she leaves new Troy she will have a different perspective on friendship.

without that key point though, I would say she has good reason to be scared.
Gilrandir 2nd Mar 2017, 12:51 PM edit delete reply
Preparing contingency plans is typically an intellectual exercise, not an emotional one. I completely agree that Noctis is probably running scenarios. I don't see any rational reason for her to be experiencing significant levels of fear.

As far as technological inferiority ... objection, presumes facts not in evidence. Unless you think TeeDee, in her high-end combat chassis, can also deflect multiple incoming automatic weapons fire with a handheld object, Cassian android tech appears to be superior to New Troy tech in every conceivable way. This is apparently because of ... reasons. We never got a chance to see CeCi get into it with a Cassian or two -- that might have provided a better standard for comparison.

In my opinion, there is no (present) reason for her to want (or get) help from anybody. Presumably a full bodyguard contingent will be coming along from Nova Roma, using standard transport, just behind them and reach New Troy before Acantha is even out of surgery. Does Noctis need to do anything but 'fort up' until Acantha is healthy enough to travel?
DLKmusic 2nd Mar 2017, 7:45 PM edit delete reply

@Gilrandir: A full bodyguard contingent may be coming from Nova Roma as soon as the dust settles from the current crisis. It is VERY possible that Acantha may be fully recovered and on a return trip before that happens.

As far as your objection, it's my turn to say facts not in evidence. Bruce Lee once said "I do not fear the man who has practiced 10,000 different Kicks. I fear the man who has practiced ONE kick 10,000 times." I believe you are confusing 60 years of rigorous training with her swordsmanship (swordspersonship?) with technological superiority. If Noctis's ability with the sword were purely technological, Hrist would have been able to display the same level of mastery, which she clearly did not. Noctis's ability is a matter of Perfected skill, and as impressive as it is, she would not be a match for 2 or 3 Black angels confronting her at once.

The vigorous and diligent training of the cassians by Kali's decree is canon, and can be found here

This is also why Maxus wasn't anywhere near as cavalier when dealing with Malati as he was when dealing with Hrist, btw. Malati also had roughly 60 years of training and experience under her belt.

It is also my belief that if you gave Teedee a sword and 30 years to practice with it, she might be as proficient as Noctis is. Although I doubt Teedee would have the patience or dedication to put that much effort into learning a single skill.
Gilrandir 2nd Mar 2017, 8:20 PM edit delete reply
It may be your belief that TeeDee could learn to deflect bullets, but I believe we have no source regarding the truth or falsity of that belief. We know that she can't do it now because of what we saw when she and Ada were facing off against Samanta and her squad. Since we know TeeDee has also been training diligently in martial arts, presuming her lack is due solely to lack of training seems ... tenuous.

Maxus never confronted Malati in battle at all -- it went from hostage crisis direct to Malati's sacrifice. We were unable to form any meaningful comparison between Malati and Hrist's martial prowess because they never faced the same opponent. Malati clearly demonstrated a different attitude, but the effect of that attitude on a hypothetical battle remains indeterminate.

My hypothesis is this: Cassian tech is superior to New Troy Tech. Canon evidence to support this consists in that we have seen Cassians do things in combat that New Troy androids in a similar situation could not or would not do, but we have not seen any New Troy android do anything that it appears a Cassian (with similar external equipment) could not or would not do. You may conjecture reasons for the differences in observed behavior, but without a canon source they remain conjectures. In the same way, you can conjecture about the outcome of a battle between a Cassian and one or more Black Angels (as can I), but without a canon source they remain conjectures. I never suggested who would win, I just pointed out that we haven't yet seen it.

With Memento Mori standing down, Decimus and Albinus dead, and the Cassians taking suggestions from Maxus, there's no reason I can see why he wouldn't be putting four of his specials on a bus right now. No need to wait until the last fire is out and the last Praetorian arrested -- for a city the size of Nova Roma, manpower appears to be the least of their problems. How long are you expecting it to take Acantha to fully recover from a total heart transplant? Less than 24 hours? Maxus commands the army. Civil Defense and emergency response are logically the responsibility of civilian agencies and the Cassians. Nova Roma not being at war with any foreign powers, he should have excess troops by the thousands from which to draw. (Technically he can't give orders to the heads of any of those civil agencies, as we have been reminded, because he isn't confirmed as Lord Regent. I'm sure he's happy to lend troops to the recovery effort because Nova Roma apparently has no equivalent to the posse comitatus law -- but that isn't what his budget and staffing levels should have been intended for, which makes all of his guys 'found money' when it comes to responding to local disasters. Insurgency is a different matter, but the insurgency is over.)
DLKmusic 2nd Mar 2017, 10:06 PM edit delete reply

@gilrandir: this is my last post on this thread then I'm dropping it.

Are you SERIOUSLY telling me that you think that an 8 year old android, new to her current frame, and fully integrated with it's combat routines for less than 72 hours is the martial equal to someone who has practiced and trained in the same body for over 60 years, if the tech behind the two frames were also equal? REALLY?

by that logic, As soon as Gomer Pyle finished friggin boot camp, he would be ready to take on Jet Li in hand to hand combat.

I'm going to repeat the Bruce Lee quote, please let me know if you agree or disagree with it.
"I do not fear the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks. I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times."
Gilrandir 2nd Mar 2017, 10:56 PM edit delete reply
I regret that you are terminating involvement in the topic, but asking questions which invite me to respond. I am somewhat at a loss as to how best to proceed ... but, intrepid, I press on. ^_^

TeeDee, per the cast page, is 30 years old. (The same age as Kali.) All other things being equal, since they seem equally motivated to me, it seems fair to assume, therefore, that TeeDee's training level is roughly equivalent to that of Kali. Body transfers and upgrades presumably introduce some short-term degradation of skills, which is presumably recaptured when synchronization and familiarization training is completed. Noctis (per the cast page) is 58, but it isn't clear for how long a time training level can increase linearly with time. It was not my impression that Noctis was twice the fighter that Kali was.

At no time did I suggest TeeDee was equal to Noctis. Human martial artists with 70 years of training still (as far as I know) aren't able to cut automatic weapons fire out of the air -- implying more than just training is at work. Since Noctis can do it, and TeeDee can't (or won't) and they are both well-trained (not 'equally trained') it seems reasonable to me that hardware differences are the simplest explanation for the difference in capability.

The actual quote (to play Noctis's game) makes a statement about the personal opinion of Bruce Lee, so of course I'm not going to question it. More to the point, I don't fundamentally disagree with the principle espoused that in specific circumstances a specialist will enjoy advantages over a generalist. I do wonder who would win: someone who practiced a single kick 10,000 times, or someone who practiced two different kicks 5,000 times each? But that is for another time. You seem to assert that TeeDee's chassis is just as capable as Noctis', and the difference is that TeeDee is just starting to climb the learning curve, while Noctis is far along the same curve. Do I have that correctly? I'll point out that TeeDee's performance (after integration) while sparring with Marcus would seem to disprove that to an extent -- but I certainly agree it is not conclusive.
DLKmusic 2nd Mar 2017, 11:34 PM edit delete reply

I was basing TeeDee's age off of the Q&A, but I stand corrected.

On The Level of intensity of the training, and the amount of self discipline between the two, I stand by my statements.

Centcomm 2nd Mar 2017, 11:34 PM edit delete reply

UM this got a bit heated. Very interesting though.. Noctis is exceprtionally good at what she does and yes she can knock bursts or bullets down with a WEAPON that can handle it. She cant bare hand it. But she is fast enough to dodge.

Teedee is a tank. She can take hits and give them back, Kali is a close assault expert and bodygaurd. Malati was a close assault expert like Noctis. and she was slacking off in the fight with maxus. Hrist is new .. and not as experianced.

Synthbrains and Synthetic nuro systems are faster but require practice to become really really good. Hope that helps
DLKmusic 2nd Mar 2017, 11:37 PM edit delete reply

Thank you, Cent. I agree, it is getting a little heated, which was why I was going to drop it.

My Apologies if I got out of line.
Gilrandir 2nd Mar 2017, 11:48 PM edit delete reply
Was Hrist, with a suitable weapon, able to deflect autofire bursts, @Centcomm?
Centcomm 2nd Mar 2017, 11:58 PM edit delete reply

No .. she does not have the skill.
Gilrandir 3rd Mar 2017, 12:05 AM edit delete reply
So, obviously you need not answer if you prefer not to, or if it would be <SPOILER>, but how much training would it have taken before Hrist developed the skill? And, given the same amount of time training, would TeeDee have been able to,learn the same skill? Marcus? Dr. Silver? Dr. Demark? (Presuming each is armed with an equivalently appropriate weapon, of course.)
Gilrandir 2nd Mar 2017, 11:50 PM edit delete reply
I also apologize if I contributed to inappropriate heat levels. I didn't feel heated at all, but I don't want any discussion participant to become uncomfortable.
highly irregular 2nd Mar 2017, 9:32 PM edit delete reply
If an android still has to gain experience in a skill in order to reliably execute it flawlessly in an identical fashion, (instead of internal programming being able to accurately modify or repeat any given action), then there's no benefit to being machine-bag instead of meat-bag and I would officially like to withdraw my request for Singular Uplifting.
megados 2nd Mar 2017, 9:50 PM edit delete reply

@highly irregular, androids do have advantages, due to inherent faster response time, faster actuation, higher mental retention capability, better optical capability, and many more inherent attributes, as well as many optional specialized mods. But yes, like anyone, they have to learn how to do things. As with humans, practice makes perfect.
megados 2nd Mar 2017, 8:59 AM edit delete reply

That's a good point DLKmusic. We know for a fact that there are a number of things that Noctis would have on her mind right now. My take is that she's maybe apprehensive . . . I'm not so sure I'd go as far as scared, though.

Your reasoning is sound, for the most part, and I can't/don't really fault it. When I bring it into my own theory, it gives me pause to think that it may be even more important to Noctis that Ada has a better impression of her, and then she might have one person as a potential ally in New Troy before Lynn and Dolly get there, or at least a go-between where presently she has none. An advocate if nothing else.

I do still have the opinion that she does want Ada to have a favorable opinion of her for whatever reason, even if only that.

**edit
It also occurs to me, that from Noctis' point of view, here's a member of the *enemy* city-state, ready and willing to help, and Noctis doesn't really know how to react to that either. So much of this is outside her wheelhouse. Altruism is probably a foreign concept to her.
Sheela 2nd Mar 2017, 6:21 PM edit delete reply

I don't think Noctis is "scared" per se, or at least not in the common sense of the word.
She may be somewhat apprehensive, and even worried about her own chances. But mostly, I think she worries about Acantha.

She also understands that she's about to be dropped into a vipers nest of bad politics and powerplays that she knows nothing about.
DLKmusic 2nd Mar 2017, 7:53 PM edit delete reply

@Megados: In fairness to Noctis, most people don't know how to deal with altruism, because it's counter to human nature, but you make a good point.

@Sheela: Apprehensive might be a better term, and I wholeheartedly agree that worrying about Acantha is on the top of her list. However, I'm gonna go out on an anthropomorphic limb here on noctis's behalf, I would be stressed WAY past the redline if put in her current situation, so I'm gonna stand by "scared".

Besides, it's my understanding from what you told me that doggies don't get scared! (grin)
Sheela 3rd Mar 2017, 3:07 PM edit delete reply

Doggies get scared all the time !

"Is my foodbowl empty ?"
"When will I get tuna next ?"
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