Comic 125 - reboot page move test

14th Jun 2007, 7:49 AM
reboot page move test
Average Rating: 5 (11 votes)

Author Notes:

Centcomm 14th Oct 2020, 12:00 AM edit delete
Centcomm
this will replace The plan and right now im suffering from a sever lack of functional brain matter.
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Comments:

Ryu Santos 14th Oct 2020, 12:36 AM edit delete reply

I'll have to forego judgement on how I feel about the change. My brain functions are lacking at this point in time as well. Some sleep and I should be able to make a reasonable judgement in the afternoon.


Edit: Upon further inspection. I do think the first changes do work out better.
Sheela 15th Oct 2020, 12:09 PM edit delete reply

Braaaaiiins !!
Ryu Santos 16th Oct 2020, 6:15 PM edit delete reply

Yes, I get like that every now and then. But Zombie Dragons aren't as fun as human zombies.
Oldarmourer 16th Oct 2020, 8:26 PM edit delete reply
I just hope that when the 2020 zombies come, they're 'Walking Dead' zombies and not 'World War Z' zombies...
Some of us are old and don't run fast anymore...
mjkj 14th Oct 2020, 12:38 AM edit delete reply

Looks good to me, Cent - and it shows why the combat stuff was lacking when she needed it...

@a/n: *hands Cent some functional, working brain matter* ;)
megados 14th Oct 2020, 4:47 AM edit delete reply

I like the page! It's a testament to the increase in skill level you have attained! Nice job!

I know all about lack of brain power at times, Cent. :) It happens to all of us. Have your hands been improving? I hate to think of you hurting yourself.
Gilrandir 14th Oct 2020, 5:22 AM edit delete reply
The art incorporates the refinements and development shown over the years, and the dialogue does give Calliope a bit more depth. I don”t recall ever thinking, @mjkj, that Dolly was lacking combat mods. She had a built-in shield, smart gun link, enhanced strength, reflexes, etc. And the previous version still made clear that there was an intentional trade-off of combat capability in order to pass for cybernetically-augmented human. This version does make it seem like CentComm was less aware of the ongoing project, which makes it a little harder to explain her willingness to incorporate it into the overall plan on short notice.

I will say that there is a ‘cut-and-paste’ feel about panels 1 & 3 that struck me as ‘off’. Not the usual degree of dynamism I expect from DataChasers. My opinion is that of your typical no-talent amateur, so there may be little support for it, but panel 1 looks to me like Calliope is turning toward Dolly to speak to her as they have been walking — good. Then we cut to a different view in panel 2 as the conversation progresses, also good. But, then, in panel 3, Calliope is still not turned completely toward Dolly, still wearing exactly the same facial expression, etc., etc. A minor thing, but given the exemplary standard we have seen in the past, just a little unexpected.

Please do not think that my attempt to provide useful feedback means that I am in any way unappreciative of your really excellent overall webcomic.
Eddie 14th Oct 2020, 5:39 AM edit delete reply
Just FYI, using Firefox on Linux here, the last few pages have been hard to read because the actual artwork, 850px by 2125px on this page, is scaled to 133px by 19px.
megados 14th Oct 2020, 6:08 AM edit delete reply

I'm also using Firefox on Linux, and I'm having no trouble. I can't understand why you would be having that problem. X window configuration settings perhaps? (xorg.conf in /etc/X11)
SysKoll 14th Oct 2020, 11:06 AM edit delete reply
Same here. Firefox on Linux, no trouble viewing the pages. Can you try disabling Javascript? Or do you have some add-ons?
Eddie 15th Oct 2020, 10:22 AM edit delete reply
I figured it out -- for some odd reason my settings had the comicfury.com domain blocked so one of the formatting javascript scripts wasn't getting loaded. Fixed now, thanks!
Guest 14th Oct 2020, 6:25 AM edit delete reply
I had to go back a few more pages to see the reboot progress.

The problem I see with replacing the indicated page is we loose Dolly's internal dialogue about embracing her change. That character motivation doesn't have time to occur because of the rushed transition. It absolutely must occur before this page where she indicates her decision to proceed and inserts herself back in the discussion. http://datachasers.thecomicseries.com/comics/129/

It could occur while they are walking in the lower level just before the indicated page since androids should be able to follow discussion externally while thinking internally and walking.

ps in your note it should be severE unless you are expecting some separation.
Centcomm 14th Oct 2020, 6:17 PM edit delete reply

but we also don't have continuity ..the character of centcom is so off base its not even funny. i'm not even going to mention the other glaring errors.
Tokyo Rose 27th Oct 2020, 4:38 PM edit delete reply

This isn't the scene where she's going through the change; they're just going down to take a look at the body Calli built. The internal dialogue is definitely going to be happening, just not "now" :)
Oldarmourer 14th Oct 2020, 7:21 AM edit delete reply
Really hate to be the naysayer, and the art is still amazing as always, but...
Dolly looks more like the 'improved Dolly' here before the change than after in the original pages...
She looks more human than Calliope here, I sort of think the 'antique version' would make for a more drastic 'change'
In order to have an improvement, you have to have something that needs improved...
That's something gov't 'planners' never figure out :)
Oldarmourer 14th Oct 2020, 7:26 AM edit delete reply
Other than that, the rest looks very nice although I still like seeing art improve as it goes along rather than have the initial efforts that we fell in love with originally washed away.
We came and stayed for what was, not what it might be changed to later on...
Maybe a vault with the original strips as posted for comparison ?
Sorry if I sound like I'm complaining, I'm not trying to, I just think some things are meant to stay the way they are
Nobody's 'touched up' the Mona Lisa...copied it maybe, but the original still stands :)
someone 14th Oct 2020, 1:04 PM edit delete reply
I think this is a downfall of many webcomic artists. Redoing work that's already done and doesn't need fixing because it can be done better today. Once a series gets to a certain length there are a lot of things that were done that could be done better one way or another.

I for one am not a fan of retcon-ing a whole series, it bifurcates the creative focus. If a project is completed, sure touch things up bring things up to some minimal level and publish? or whatever the goal is for polishing up the beginning or fixing things that time has given you better solutions to. However if the story is ongoing I've found it usually leads to stalling out.

The other risk of retcon-ing is that, while you certainly control the content, you risk going the route of Lucas and fixing things so much you break them instead.

Best of luck whatever the direction, but those are my thoughts on it.

-S
chk 14th Oct 2020, 8:24 AM edit delete reply

I agree. I think the change from the metallic chassis to a seriously human looking android was integral to the story. It showed the 'robot Dolly' willing to go through a "massive change" with "considerable risk" in order to rescue Lynn.
Are you going to reboot the whole series?
Oldarmourer 14th Oct 2020, 12:54 PM edit delete reply
Exactitically...the 'change' was a main part of the story and here we see Dolly looking as if she's already gone through it...
Unless the 'new' improved version of the MkV Dolly chassis is going to be even more human than human ;)
I really don't mean to be picky, but to make the story work as written, the 'old' Dolly needs to a virtually obsolete model that Calliope has 'upgraded over the years' in ways nobody else could have...showcasing both her talents and the very real danger Dolly takes in a massive upgrade no other Android has ever attempted...long live chrome hair !!!
Oldarmourer 14th Oct 2020, 12:55 PM edit delete reply
everything else is pretty much perfect though ;)
Centcomm 14th Oct 2020, 6:16 PM edit delete reply

I worked really hard on this version. Sorry you guys dont like it
megados 14th Oct 2020, 6:27 PM edit delete reply

I was typing at the same time, sorry, @Centcomm, see my comment below.
*edit: Now way below XD Oh well . . .
Oldarmourer 14th Oct 2020, 6:55 PM edit delete reply
It's not that I don't like it, I love it, it's beautiful and skillfully rendered, really.
My only concern is, would a new reader, following the storyline where Dolly is an 'older' model and is upgraded to a level never before seen in any Android....how do you make it look better than this version ?
Where's the drastic and amazing change in her appearance ?
It's not my place to tell you how to do your comic, or even to pretend that I have any right to, I'm just pointing out what I think is an important plot point that will have to be rewritten in it's entirety to cover the shiny new art. I liked the transformation sequence as it was, there was a before and an after...for what little my opinion is worth, this is too good to be good :)
megados 14th Oct 2020, 7:09 PM edit delete reply

I dunno, @Oldarmourer, it's still a pretty obvious change. This [take on her old*] body is still pretty obviously more mechanical, whereas her new body is visually indistinguishable from human. JMO

*edited
Oldarmourer 16th Oct 2020, 8:40 PM edit delete reply
Going back to the 'Memory Shard' segment, currently starting at page 592, much is made of her 'antique look'
Athena is fixated on the 'dolly' in the way she wouldn't be on a human looking Android...
Thus the reason we go from Dolores to Dolly ;)
A poignant bit of writing that almost misted me up a little...almost !!! damned fan blowing air under my glasses again.
This new Dolly is artistically worlds beyond the old one but that particular bit needs the old look...
In my opinion anyway, everyone else's may vary.
If it's a sore spot for the artist, I really hate to bring it up again but it changes the story quite dramatically for me.
I know your hands are giving you problems, Cent, maybe the 'remastering' can be set to a lower priority to give them some rest ?
Centcomm 18th Oct 2020, 2:03 AM edit delete reply

actually these pages have been sitting in a folder prior to my hand issues take too..
Oldarmourer 18th Oct 2020, 6:13 AM edit delete reply
Speaking of...have you managed to find any relief ?
It's starting to get cold and damp here and I'd gladly trade you...just pick up the postage ;)
Gilrandir 14th Oct 2020, 9:30 PM edit delete reply
Now I also has the ‘sad’ and offers ‘hugz’, @CentComm.
someone 14th Oct 2020, 11:40 PM edit delete reply
I love the art, it is very beautiful. I also love the original story y'all produced, which is why I'm (still) here.

I'm merely stating things as I see them for input. If I were an accomplished artist capable of captivating thousands upon thousands of people with my stories and art, I'd probably be *doing* that rather than discussing someone else's work in a forum ~_^.

Also for what it's worth I was speaking very generally like 10kft view. What things can go wrong with rewriting and redoing existing story, from an external view.

You're the only one between the two of us that can decide if any of that is relevant to the behind-the-scenes. Is it going to detract from moving the story forward? Do you have spare cycles to work on this and just wanna? Is it instead exhilarating to get your whole story line and/or art consistent. I can't tell you which off those it is, but I can wonder about which it could be O:-).

Personally it's beautiful and I would withhold any actual "judgement" beyond that for a reboot / retouch / whatever with more context than a few panels. I for one, dropping down to the details, would need to see the before / after, probably the old chassis (As redone) in a few more scenes to really see if it felt like the same leap as portrayed in the original.

sorry that my comment dovetailed off someone else's who was at least initially worrying about how a key scene he enjoyed might appear given these few panels. I wasn't intending to directly dovetail off that and add support to his line of thinking per se...but his line of thought had me waxing to a mood of pontification on the topic of redoing existing work.

-S
Evervigilant 16th Oct 2020, 11:01 AM edit delete reply
Cent your work is fantastic. As some others have said it isn't that I don't like what you have created, however as a plot point and the idea Dolly is getting a major upgrade her redrawn "old" face to me looks as good as her new one which may lessen the feeling of a big change. I think Dolly's old face should look more like the recent face you did on Ophelia. In the end it is your comic and it isn't like I'm going to hate it because of the change. I'll always look forward to reading the story and seeing your vision of what that story looks like.
Evervigilant 16th Oct 2020, 1:50 PM edit delete reply
After I made my first comment I tried to think of another story I know about that closely mirrored the story line of Dolly and her upgrade. The movie Bicentennial Man came to mind after some thought. Originally the old style Dolly and new style Dolly were very much like when the robot in Bicentennial Man went through is first change from a metal body to a more human looking android. It was a big change, and much like in your story they talked about the changes in sensation and sensory input he would experience in such a drastic change. Later in the movie he changed again going to more biomechanical body and mind while his outside really didn't change much. With the redraw I felt more like I did with the second change in the movie. With the old Dolly model it was more like the first change in the movie. Hope that makes more sense and explains it isn't a critique on your art style at all.
DLKmusic 17th Oct 2020, 3:52 PM edit delete reply

I haven't thrown my 2 cents in yet, which is odd, but usually you guys can't get me to shut up!!!

Personally, I agree with Megados. The face looks softer, but the body actually looks more mechanical than the originals. after looking at Dolly's Eyes on this page, I't kinda reminded me of the Droid face which logos my Antivirus, Nod32

I do, however agree with Guest above about Dolly's internal dialog, which would actually come in before this page. If possible, another single frame page with the same... or even expanded... internal dialog, inserted before this page would work quite well

OK, everyone, the tomatoes are right behind you, but please... this time aim for me? Hit my guitar again and I'll get mad!
Just_IDD 14th Oct 2020, 4:59 PM edit delete reply
@OA I thought that at first too, and I am in somewhat agreement with you.

They would have to fix her appearance all the way back to the initial memory meeting or break the continuity that she is in her orginal 3B chassis which was a plot point how the hadn't needed a chassis upgrade. If you go back more than a few pages, however you'll find they have already changed out the imagery to this newer one on at least some of my changes. That is why I limited my comments in the Guest post to retaining storyline that this placement will break continuity on.
megados 14th Oct 2020, 6:24 PM edit delete reply

I might be the lone dissenter, but the changes here are primarily to Dolly's head. Her body is markedly similar to that in the earlier version. In this version the main differences seem to be her 'softer' facial features, and her hair. The premise is that she has to undergo a big change in order to undertake a role in rescuing Lynn, for [reasons]. Her new body is a big departure in appearance from the one she has here. One might think that in the 39th century, attention might be paid to an android's head and face when you think about the fact that they are designed to interact with humans, and that the body itself less so, since clothed, it mightn't be commonly visible. I don't really think the change here breaks the story, as there is still a pretty big change in her body. Her body here, is pretty obviously mechanical, and later her body's appearance is indistinguishable from human.
Centcomm 18th Oct 2020, 1:59 AM edit delete reply

im confused...
megados 18th Oct 2020, 4:58 AM edit delete reply

Sorry about that. I didn't mean to make more confusion out of the confusion. . .

My first comment on it, was that I like the page. That's my main point.

In this comment, I wanted to say, although Dolly's head looks newer/softer, and her hair is different, it still gives her enough of an 'older model' vibe that her eventual upgrade is still a major change. That's a needed plot point in the story, and it still holds. As near as I can tell, a lot of the others are saying that the original design, and particularly her head and metallic hair makes for a starker change when she gets her new body, and she looks "too new" here?

It's confusing because there's her 'old' body, her "new"'old body' , and her 'new' body LOL Sorry about that. Does this help?
Betonhaus 14th Oct 2020, 1:13 PM edit delete reply
...dangit, you got me hooked on re-reading the story from the beginning
megados 14th Oct 2020, 1:17 PM edit delete reply

Nothing wrong with that!
DLKmusic 17th Oct 2020, 3:37 PM edit delete reply

@Betonhaus: It's what we do! Bwuahahahahahahah!!!!
Rashala 14th Oct 2020, 11:12 PM edit delete reply

Each brain matters so overrated who needs it. Seriously 5hough centy take care of yourself.
One-eyed Mike 16th Oct 2020, 2:41 PM edit delete reply
Having recently surfaced from an archive dive, I have less concerns about the older format for Dolly.

In essence, it's enough to make it clear that her old body is much less human-like, and is clearly identifiable as gynoid. Her new body is pretty close to human, and her new head fits this.

I don't think it needs a great leap forward from semi-robot to human, just to make the point
notStanley 17th Oct 2020, 8:56 AM edit delete reply

I generally vote against retcons. If just a page or three, the style difference can break the flow. If ends up as full chapter rewrites, that is time not spent on new content.
Tokyo Rose 17th Oct 2020, 7:21 PM edit delete reply

There are places where we really, really need to do rewrites to bring the continuity into line and get the standard up. We had no plan when this started off, and that's very painfully clear. >_<
Oldarmourer 18th Oct 2020, 6:11 AM edit delete reply
Sometimes the best plan is no plan...'happy little accidents' do work :)
Many of the most memorable lines in movies were ad-libs, a tight script only takes you so far...did I miss any cliches ?
I did mean what I said about the 'memory shard' segment, it was poignant and really brought the characters out
but it wouldn't have worked nearly as well with a brand new, top of the line Dolly body...
Maybe keep the 'old' body for that segment and others from the past with Athena ?
Then we can assume Calliope had already made a few upgrades when we see her in scenes with her ?
I still like the hard transition from durachrome to human 'flesh', but it could be done in stages...
Oldarmourer 18th Oct 2020, 1:06 PM edit delete reply
Calliope is the electromechanical genius so it makes sense that she'd have made some improvements for Dolly when she had the chance but before then the body we 'first' see Delores chose in 'memory shards', Calliope didn't exist and the child version of Athena was too young to make any changes even if she'd had the talent her daughter would end up with.
I know I have no right to say anything since it's not my story, but leaving the 'old' Dolly as is for the flashback scenes and keeping the 'improved but still not a Model V' version for the scenes with a grownup Calliope and Lynne (after Calliope became a Technician Savant) would preserve the timeline a little and maybe even add to the continuity.
That's just an opinion though...
Oldarmourer 18th Oct 2020, 5:43 PM edit delete reply
Halfway to the next installment, that is if Cent's hands take some pity on her :(
Here's something interesting to read in the meantime...or not, depending on your tastes
It's a little unique for this genre, on a pause in between books right now, but I don't see it stopping for good
It should be higher up the TopWeb ladder than it is though...

https://brendancahill.com/inferno/001/cover
chk 19th Oct 2020, 8:21 AM edit delete reply

There is, or was, a 're-boot' posted a few years ago that went from the beginning up to this point. I haven't been able to find it lately. I had thought it was more of a parallel project rather than a replacement.
chk 19th Oct 2020, 8:33 AM edit delete reply

All that being said, I still prefer the original version. I like the more radical change Dolly undergoes.
chk 20th Oct 2020, 6:29 AM edit delete reply

Actually the new pages are posted at the beginning of this series. I forgot.
Sheela 25th Oct 2020, 1:56 AM edit delete reply

Having gone over the comments on Dolly's look in the reboot pages, it seems to me that most people who have issues, is about how the impact of going from "robot-like" to "human-like" is about dolly's face.

Why not giver her a facial bump-map like that of the new Ophelia body ? (maybe a different and more severe pattern?)
That would make her look less human, and re-instate the significance of the transition to some degree.

Obviously, that would mean having to update Dolly's model, and re-render the panels where Dolly's face can be seen up until she transitions - But it might be worth it for the story.

And hopefully, you have good save-files of your work.
So it shouldn't be too much work then.
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