Given that, at the moment, we are discussing graphic representations of idealized constructs in a digital cyberspace, the notion of what is and is not a 'natural color' is ... piquant.
I can tell you that, for some of us, the representations are not yet sufficiently graphic, but I don't think we're going to be getting any kind of scene reminiscent of Drunken Dolly and the mercenary. ^_^. (Who wears clothing into a cryo tube anyway? ^_^)
I'm not yet sure where our storytellers are going with this, so I am adopting a wait (and wait ... and wait ... and wait ... ^_^) and see attitude. One thing I think we can all be fairly confident of, though ...
We will not be finding out any time soon whether Digital Rose's cyber-tatami matches her virtual-kakejiku. ^_^
Of course you'd wear clothes in a cryo tube. Do you have any idea how cold it gets in there? ;)
Also, if you were frozen naked in a transparent cylinder, you'd probably end up on display in a museum for a couple of thousand years. Your face (and everything else) would be as famous as Venus de Milo and the statue of David.
You don't want to wear clothes into a cryo tube, because you don't want it to become a 'chafing dish'. ^_^
Not to mention that, if you have an attractive and comely shape, we don't want you to wear clothes into the tube, avoiding both rime and reason. ^_^
But fine. If they want to put monitoring garments on Tokyo Rose, I'll defer to their completely reasonable concerns. But, if they're going to monitor her, they should at least monitor her. Do you think they have an idea of even a fraction of what she's actually up to? ^_^
Her real body is an albino; red eyes are the only nod to it on her chosen digital avatar and her doll bodies. (And yeah, there are monitoring sensors in the garment her real body's wearing.)
Too late for that Ninja. CentComm already scheduled SIX weeks of cliffhangers (last page's comments). ::Offers Ninja a pitchfork and torch to hunt down CentComm::
I'm not as certain Rose could stop Aeneas, HiFranc. I think Rose can do things Aeneas (or any other AI) cannot do; however, I get the feeling AI's have way more raw POWER than Rose does. Which is how Aeneas blew Rose up. She is the scalpel compared to his chainsaw.
@HiFranc - I didn't want to say it, but it did sound like a form of "That tickles! Don't! stop! Don't stop!" There's no such thing as digital incest, is there?
"Oh, mais oui, madame. You must try our newest body mod. Your own friends will not recognize you. It is, how you say, tres chic and all the rage in Cannes and on the Riviera. A nip here, a tuck there, viola, a new you! Will that be cash or charge?"
I'm thinking Rose will look however Aeneas perceives her REAL appearance, mjkj. Now how close to sleeping beauty he gets, I guess we will find out Monday.
"Well, we all have a face
That we hide away forever
And we take them out
And show ourselves when everyone has gone
Some are satin, some are steel
Some are silk and some are leather
They're the faces of a stranger
But we'd love to try them on"
I suspect that I am in the minority here but this seems extremely out of character for Rose.
1-to allow this means she is giving up her dominant position over Aeneas.
2-More importantly, she is breaking cover. She had just threatened Aeneas with death if he disclosed her secret yet by allowing him to show her true form she is opening the door to such revelations.
3-Aeneas is again coming across as a petulant child.
1. I think that there is a large part of Rose that wants to appear in her true form.
2. She doesn't have to appear in this form when others are around.
3. In Aeneas's case I believe that it's more PTSD.
Add to that that Rose feels guilty for not being able to save him and that she needs him on side to be able to put things right and it's perfectly understandable to me.
Technically Rose is one of Aeneas' "Mothers" and she could actually have feelings of such, plus as you say she may feel some guilt that her "Child" was harmed and she couldn't prevent it.
Well, it IS keeping Aeneas distracted and they can probably wipe his current short term memory storage if they really feel it's necessary considering his present state of bypassed defenses.
I'm not sure if Decimus would react to a White Lady haunting his palace but this could be a new side line for a pale Rose.
I think the digital mass is her "Real" digital self with out any masks. The Avatar is a self styled self image.
Though if that is the case, Aeneas is wearing a mask. I think when she is Un-Avatarised Aeneas can "See" her as she truly is digitally. So EEEK indeed, she is truly exposed. This would be the closest thing to an A.I.S. in the nude.
I've been wondering if Rose was going to point out that without his "mask" Aeneas is one or more sealed equipment bays lined with a series of cabinet doors and maybe a camera and speaker if he wants to communicate with anyone.
Self-awareness is hard. All those things - cabinets, doors, cameras, equipment bays ... they don't have the kind of, I dunno, maybe the word is "proprioception" or some analogue of it, that it takes to really be perceived as part of a self.
I think a digital intelligence living in a world of data, would need something like "hands" to interact with it -- a general tool that could be used in consistent ways to do and sense a huge variety of things including unfamiliar and unknown things, that it wouldn't have to change when the underlying equipment changed. So, it would have some kind of "self" at the data level, and its awareness of all those server racks would be more or less like we think of our houses - places where we live, full of our stuff.
But, that digital "self" being humanoid, is just a story-telling convention. And its humanoid appearance is ... like talking about the color of breath. The fact of it having a definition at all, would indicate something severely weird in the world that AIs inhabit.
So I'm seeing this whole sequence as a metaphor for something outside our meatly experience.
That's an interesting question. Who are we really? Some people would say that we're only a brain - the rest is just life support. That means that if you can read the structure of our neurons and we have an exact copy of that person. However, that is probably an overly simplistic view:
Without, say, adrenal glands, can we truly be frightened. And does that mean that we're not the same person? What if you could simulate adrenal glands in a computer, would the person who had a disease that is disrupted his endocrine system the same person if the computer version has working adrenal glands. Moving away from anger and fear, are you truly the same if your "body" can't feel the warm tingle all over when somebody you care about is in your mind?
There is increasing evidence that our gut microbiota has a profound impact on the brain. Experiments increasingly point to an imbalanced gut to have a negative impact on depression, stress, schizophrenia, etc. The microbiota depends on what exactly you eat and the environment that you live in. We don't know why that is but it is believed to be influential as it has the largest collection of neurons outside of the brain (I believe as many as in a cat's brain but my memory's faded there).
Coming closer to the issue at hand, psychology experiments have shown that a person's sense of morality changes when the question is asked in a language that is not a person's first (even if they are fluent in the other language). Other psychology experiments have shown that if we change a person's perception of their body then the way people see the world changes (the experiments that I am thinking of used virtual reality to make subjects, in the test groups, perceive that they were a different height or a different race). It didn't take long at all. Also, those who have face transplants often lose their previous sense of identity).
The experimental evidence supports Aeneas to a certain extent.
{edit} Also if you've ever used any world simulations, for example Second Life, do you really think, feel and act as you would in real life? I doubt you would.
There is another point too. A name is not a person. A name is the government's link to a person. Other people use it too, and have always used names of one sort or another, but the kind of unchangeable name we think of as "normal" exists only by the decree of, and for the convenience of, governments.
In the real world? Unless governments refuse to acknowledge it, any name you've worn for more than three decades is your name. In the digital world? If you outlive governments that might have other opinions, any avatar you've used continuously for fifteen centuries is just how you look.
I can tell you that, for some of us, the representations are not yet sufficiently graphic, but I don't think we're going to be getting any kind of scene reminiscent of Drunken Dolly and the mercenary. ^_^. (Who wears clothing into a cryo tube anyway? ^_^)
I'm not yet sure where our storytellers are going with this, so I am adopting a wait (and wait ... and wait ... and wait ... ^_^) and see attitude. One thing I think we can all be fairly confident of, though ...
We will not be finding out any time soon whether Digital Rose's cyber-tatami matches her virtual-kakejiku. ^_^
Also, if you were frozen naked in a transparent cylinder, you'd probably end up on display in a museum for a couple of thousand years. Your face (and everything else) would be as famous as Venus de Milo and the statue of David.
Not to mention that, if you have an attractive and comely shape, we don't want you to wear clothes into the tube, avoiding both rime and reason. ^_^
But fine. If they want to put monitoring garments on Tokyo Rose, I'll defer to their completely reasonable concerns. But, if they're going to monitor her, they should at least monitor her. Do you think they have an idea of even a fraction of what she's actually up to? ^_^
Sorry, couldn't resist.
... and it is about time we had one!" ^_^
<3 Rose's banter!
{edit} If she truly objected, she could easily stop him. I suspect that she's curious.
{edit 2} The fact that she's not really trying to stop him means that I'm beginning to wonder if this is some kind of foreplay for both of them.
No, I'm not a shipper...I am not grinning...Oh, who am I trying to kid?
I wonder how she will look like afterwards... XD
That we hide away forever
And we take them out
And show ourselves when everyone has gone
Some are satin, some are steel
Some are silk and some are leather
They're the faces of a stranger
But we'd love to try them on"
inside/outside
makes face
1-to allow this means she is giving up her dominant position over Aeneas.
2-More importantly, she is breaking cover. She had just threatened Aeneas with death if he disclosed her secret yet by allowing him to show her true form she is opening the door to such revelations.
3-Aeneas is again coming across as a petulant child.
2. She doesn't have to appear in this form when others are around.
3. In Aeneas's case I believe that it's more PTSD.
Add to that that Rose feels guilty for not being able to save him and that she needs him on side to be able to put things right and it's perfectly understandable to me.
Unless you have no other choice, never, ever, do anything for just one reason. ^_^
I'm not sure if Decimus would react to a White Lady haunting his palace but this could be a new side line for a pale Rose.
Which leads me to thinkg they are behind the scenes either snarfing outrageously to keep a *secret*
or
They are plotting and scheming to revise the script to make it even MORE evil with more cliffhangers and plot adjustments.
And yes .. We are still tinkering with the script :D
XDXDXDXD
Rose, You aren't helping my Job Security situation!!!
Though if that is the case, Aeneas is wearing a mask. I think when she is Un-Avatarised Aeneas can "See" her as she truly is digitally. So EEEK indeed, she is truly exposed. This would be the closest thing to an A.I.S. in the nude.
I think a digital intelligence living in a world of data, would need something like "hands" to interact with it -- a general tool that could be used in consistent ways to do and sense a huge variety of things including unfamiliar and unknown things, that it wouldn't have to change when the underlying equipment changed. So, it would have some kind of "self" at the data level, and its awareness of all those server racks would be more or less like we think of our houses - places where we live, full of our stuff.
But, that digital "self" being humanoid, is just a story-telling convention. And its humanoid appearance is ... like talking about the color of breath. The fact of it having a definition at all, would indicate something severely weird in the world that AIs inhabit.
So I'm seeing this whole sequence as a metaphor for something outside our meatly experience.
Without, say, adrenal glands, can we truly be frightened. And does that mean that we're not the same person? What if you could simulate adrenal glands in a computer, would the person who had a disease that is disrupted his endocrine system the same person if the computer version has working adrenal glands. Moving away from anger and fear, are you truly the same if your "body" can't feel the warm tingle all over when somebody you care about is in your mind?
There is increasing evidence that our gut microbiota has a profound impact on the brain. Experiments increasingly point to an imbalanced gut to have a negative impact on depression, stress, schizophrenia, etc. The microbiota depends on what exactly you eat and the environment that you live in. We don't know why that is but it is believed to be influential as it has the largest collection of neurons outside of the brain (I believe as many as in a cat's brain but my memory's faded there).
Coming closer to the issue at hand, psychology experiments have shown that a person's sense of morality changes when the question is asked in a language that is not a person's first (even if they are fluent in the other language). Other psychology experiments have shown that if we change a person's perception of their body then the way people see the world changes (the experiments that I am thinking of used virtual reality to make subjects, in the test groups, perceive that they were a different height or a different race). It didn't take long at all. Also, those who have face transplants often lose their previous sense of identity).
The experimental evidence supports Aeneas to a certain extent.
{edit} Also if you've ever used any world simulations, for example Second Life, do you really think, feel and act as you would in real life? I doubt you would.
In the real world? Unless governments refuse to acknowledge it, any name you've worn for more than three decades is your name. In the digital world? If you outlive governments that might have other opinions, any avatar you've used continuously for fifteen centuries is just how you look.
I see what you did there. A little code joke?