Comic 1378 - Doomsday Databank

17th Jul 2016, 9:00 PM
Doomsday Databank
Average Rating: 5 (23 votes)

Author Notes:

Centcomm 17th Jul 2016, 10:57 PM edit delete
currently on morphine.... im really scared about them opening my chest ..
Centcomm 18th Jul 2016, 9:20 AM edit delete
it is going to be open heart surgery.... i have to have three blood vessles repared.

if anyone wants the number here is Redacted
Marcus Ramesy 18th Jul 2016, 12:53 PM edit delete
Marcus Ramesy
This is the person behind Marcus... so here is the deal.. Teri (centcom) is currently in the hospital for heart related stuff.. long story short.. she has blockage in 3 of the 4 arterys and is going to need to have bypass surgery called CABG which translates roughly to triple bypass surgery. She is currently at Banner medical hospital on dobson here in in mesa.. room d-106 phone is 480-412-6106 ... well wishes and good thoughts are welcome and encouraged. any one in the area is welcome to stop by phone calls are encouraged for those that havent already called her to wish her well..
Centcomm 19th Jul 2016, 1:01 AM edit delete
today. is the day they are doing the surgery. i had my intital prep ...
Tokyo Rose 19th Jul 2016, 8:34 AM edit delete
Tokyo Rose
As of 8:15 AM, Terri is in surgery. She was very frightened and anxious up until the anesthesiologist gave her a shot of Versed, and about forty seconds later, she started slurringly requesting a musical playlist. Mr. Black and I left only as they were wheeling her into the surgical area.

SMALL UPDATE: I received a call from the OR nurse around 9:40 AM to say that surgery was underway. I was given a ballpark time frame of 5 to 6 hours in the OR.

UPDATE: Terri's out of surgery and is the post-op recovery ICU.

SIDEDATE: I feel seriously terribad that updating here is the best I can do because I can't keep my head straight enough to inform people one by one and directly. I sincerely hope nobody's taking personal offense to this partially-assed approach.

ACTUAL UPDATE: I went to see Terri in the recovery ICU. Her first words to me were "I made it."

Being the warm, kind, supportive person I am, I answered, "Of course you fucking did, I told you that you would."

I had intended to leave Terri's cell phone with her, but since she's been blasted into the stratosphere with fentanyl, she's not exactly lucid enough to do the phone dance just yet.

She went through the surgery like a champ. Two blood vessels were taken from the right leg, and another one already present in the chest (the name of it escapes me) was re-routed to serve as the third replacement. Vitals are very strong and stable.
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Mark_L_A 17th Jul 2016, 9:00 PM edit delete reply

Go get 'em Spike.

and please get well Terri.
mjkj 17th Jul 2016, 9:02 PM edit delete reply

Wow, beautiful...

I hope lil'Spikey will make it in time...

Edit: get well, soon, Cent... *hugs*

DLKmusic 17th Jul 2016, 9:02 PM edit delete reply

and now a brief message brought to you by concerned fans everywhere...


we now return you to our regular comments
Gilrandir 17th Jul 2016, 9:13 PM edit delete reply
I don't think she's alone in there. ^_^ Although "alone" can be a very ambiguous term in this context. There's someone there who talks like Watchdog and Spike, but whose font is green, not blue. Hmmmmmm.
Dragonrider 17th Jul 2016, 9:19 PM edit delete reply

That sounds like Douchebags thoughts.
Tokyo Rose 17th Jul 2016, 9:47 PM edit delete reply

That's the contingencies themselves talking.
Gilrandir 17th Jul 2016, 9:56 PM edit delete reply
Ah. Previously it had seemed like status and operations panels were color-coordinated with their agencies. CeCi's panel (and the 'voice') for the spike was pink, Rose's panel was red, etc., etc. Since the panels were blue, I would have expected their 'voice' to match. But it's no big deal. And, of course, if they are independent processes, I'd expect them to each have their own individual color -- but there are only so many shades on the palette, so I can understand that as well.

Since we have awakened the nit-monster, though, I would have expected the "I will take it all with me" line to go with NERO. "Kill them all" is fine for AHAB. SAMSON (IMHO) would be something like "They will all pay! I'll show them ALL!" Just a thought.
Tokyo Rose 18th Jul 2016, 5:52 AM edit delete reply

I broke with my usual font traditions purely for creepiness effect, and to reflect that they were set up by the same diseased mind. The lines should be read in a flat, uninflected tone for maximum creep effect, IMO.

Keep the nit-monster on its chain until you see the line I gave to NERO. >)
jamie59 17th Jul 2016, 9:17 PM edit delete reply

Looks amazing!

Get WELL SOON Terri CentComm!
Dragonrider 17th Jul 2016, 9:18 PM edit delete reply

Best on the Health Front Terri Get well. Goddess Bless.

Now a question is this Ahab or Sampson or are their two different programs? A question do we really want Centcomms clone in charge of the Armageddon Programs?
Tokyo Rose 17th Jul 2016, 9:47 PM edit delete reply

All three of the contingencies are in this same databank.
Visvires 18th Jul 2016, 12:06 AM edit delete reply
Redundancy failure. One Trojan to wipe them all.

Good luck with the operation, Cent. Try to remember that this is business as usual for the doctors, and a procedure undertaken precisely because it increases life expectancy.
Just_IDD 18th Jul 2016, 2:05 AM edit delete reply
With computers, Trojans don't prevent viruses, they cause them.
sigpig 18th Jul 2016, 4:35 AM edit delete reply

One Trojan to rule Them all;
One Trojan to find them.
One Trojan to bring them all;
And in the Darkness wipe them!
Havear 18th Jul 2016, 6:20 AM edit delete reply
That's what I was thinking. That spike presumably carries a CentCom gestalt as part of a trojan package. Even if it doesn't activate on Aeneas, it still leaves a CentCom in charge of those programs. It's less MAD and more blackmail material using a significant civilian population.
CptKerion 18th Jul 2016, 3:33 PM edit delete reply
... you know what, I'm so happy Decimus did not engage in proper redundancy... at the same time, this failure to do so only makes me hate him more for his incompetence.
I genuinely do not think there is a single thing I like about him. He is literally the most hateable antagonist I've ever encountered.
Tokyo Rose 18th Jul 2016, 4:43 PM edit delete reply


Would you say we did a good job with him, or not so great? Let's be honest here, some villains we enjoy hating, and some villains we just hate, full stop. :D
antrik 20th Jul 2016, 8:00 PM edit delete reply
Well, he was a good shot. That totally should make him likeable?... ;-)
Centcomm 20th Jul 2016, 8:57 PM edit delete reply

ßhowīng m
The Old Scribe 17th Jul 2016, 9:19 PM edit delete reply

Hang tough, Terri. Modern medicine is remarkable with all it can do. Sending healing vibes your way and some prayers.

Get out of there, CiCi! That whole thing's gonna blow like Mt. St. Helens!
Don 17th Jul 2016, 9:20 PM edit delete reply
All the best, Terri!
ProfEtheric 17th Jul 2016, 10:24 PM edit delete reply

Great page!

But more importantly, get well soon, Terri! My thoughts and prayers are with you!
Centcomm 17th Jul 2016, 11:13 PM edit delete reply

thqank you proffessor
HiFranc 17th Jul 2016, 11:14 PM edit delete reply

Terri we're with you in spirit.
HiFranc 17th Jul 2016, 11:18 PM edit delete reply

When Acantha explained everything she listed Nero, Ahab and Samson in that order. Does that mean that Nero, destruction of city infrastructure, has already started?
Centcomm 17th Jul 2016, 11:26 PM edit delete reply

you can see the countdown timer for the,,,
Howard 17th Jul 2016, 11:59 PM edit delete reply
Don't know if you believe or not (although that beautiful prayer from lunar star seems to say you do). But I will be praying for you. Also I have had them tinkering around in my chest before I won't lie, it sucks, and recovery is a bitch, but you do recover I promise you will get through this Terri just have faith.
Rashala 18th Jul 2016, 12:12 AM edit delete reply

I know tons are saying stay calm Terri,. And they are right, you need to remain calm getting your self scared and miserable is only gonna just make you well miserable. There are things in and out of our control, and for now you need to trust your doctor's and focus on ,-you- and what you can do. Watch TV or a movie read a book plot how to get revenge on me for cloning feeder a billion times, anything you want that makes you feel like you,

To paraphrase Shawshank, you can get busy living and being happy or just sit and be miserable, it all up to you.
six 18th Jul 2016, 12:44 AM edit delete reply
Surgery is safer than traveling to the hospital so don't worry about it Terri.

I have gone trough two of them myself.
The reasons for surgery and the healing period afterwards certainly is no fun. But getting put to sleep and then waking up is an experience I actually enjoyed.

Best wishes on your recovery!
Dragonrider 18th Jul 2016, 12:51 AM edit delete reply

Teri, I fully understand the fear, went through it and I survived. The Angiogram does not require them to open chest, they insert tube through Femoral Artery thread it up to heart inflate a micro balloon to remove the blockage deflate balloon, put stent in place where blockage was, withdraw probe and plug hole in artery with collagen plug. They put a weight on plug to keep it in place and your are up in three or four hours. Worst part is having to lay still while weight is on plug and being on a catheter during the procedure. If you want you can watch the procedure while it is performed there is a micro camera in the probe that the Doc uses to guide the whole thing, he uses a TV screen to see exactly what is going on.

Should they decide on Bypass nowadays most all Bypass Procedures are performed using Laparoscopic Surgery and don't need to open chest.
Laparoscopic surgery, also called minimally invasive surgery (MIS), bandaid surgery, or keyhole surgery, is a modern surgical technique in which operations are performed far from their location through small incisions (usually 0.5–1.5 cm) elsewhere in the body.
Again Goddess Bless and sending all positive energy I can.
Tokyo Rose 18th Jul 2016, 5:56 AM edit delete reply

Terri's mentioned the angiogram was much less scary than she expected it to be. I guess that's what happens when you go to vascular surgery sites WITH PICTURES to do your research...

It seems as if the bypass is pretty much set in stone, and I'm personally hoping that they can indeed do it laparoscopically; less traumatic all around, and an improved recovery time to boot.
Centcomm 18th Jul 2016, 6:36 AM edit delete reply

they havent told me the detauils of thev by pass.. tryinng to stay wake on morphine lololjjllll
Stormwind13 18th Jul 2016, 7:25 AM edit delete reply

Yes Rose. Praying that they can do the least invasive procedure so Terri can recover quickest.

Terri, know that we are praying for your speedy recovery. Please take care. :-)
Naldru 18th Jul 2016, 2:51 PM edit delete reply
Angioplasty is where they use a balloon and/or stent to open up the blood vessel. I'm assuming that she had a CT angiogram where they make a three dimensional movie of your heart as dye goes through. They probably haven't given her the details of the surgery because the doctors are still examining results of the angiogram to determine the best approach and how to avoid any problems. I know it sounds trite, but worrying about it can make you really sick. Her surgeons have probably gone through this hundreds of time, and practice makes close to perfect.
kraznor 18th Jul 2016, 1:51 AM edit delete reply
get well, soon, Cent we are thinking of you
cattservant 18th Jul 2016, 2:47 AM edit delete reply

May the Lord bring
you to your rest.
Out through safety,
back home to success.
Greenwood Goat 18th Jul 2016, 2:57 AM edit delete reply

And I would have thought that Dec's mind would contain a 100' tall solid gold bobblehead, complete with bejewelled, vibrating codpiece and a "WORSHIP HERE" sign.


Anyway, my best and strongest wishes for a successful operation and a speedy recovery.
Tokyo Rose 18th Jul 2016, 5:57 AM edit delete reply

I should've known someone would come up with an even more hilarious elaboration on my bobblehead idea... :D
highlander55 18th Jul 2016, 5:02 AM edit delete reply

Don't worry Terri, I had the same procedure as Dragonrider explained except no stent placed. No problems unless you like doing cartwheels.
chk 18th Jul 2016, 9:16 AM edit delete reply

I would be frightened too, Terri.
Hell, I was scared when they operated on my back.

Take care and take it easy.
chk 18th Jul 2016, 9:17 AM edit delete reply

Oh yeah. Beautiful page.
wright1 18th Jul 2016, 9:48 AM edit delete reply
Lovely page. Great to see Ceci back and coming into her own.

Best of luck and a speedy recovery.
Cal 18th Jul 2016, 10:21 AM edit delete reply
As ever, the strip's're awesome.

Most importantly, tho, Terri - for what a rando's thoughts and wishes are worth, you most definitely have mine, and to all of your family, blood and otherwise, the same.
Karyl 18th Jul 2016, 10:40 AM edit delete reply
Enjoying all your art as always. Much more importantly, adding to the well-wishes and positive thoughts for speedy and safe procedure AND recovery!
HeSerpenty 18th Jul 2016, 10:50 AM edit delete reply

Centy you will be in my thoughts and prayers!
I hope everything works out and we get ya fixed up <3
highlander55 18th Jul 2016, 11:08 AM edit delete reply

What 's the phone number for. Cent flying on the morphine?
Stormwind13 18th Jul 2016, 11:34 AM edit delete reply

Hospital room, I would guess. She is lonely and scared, hoping people will call her. I wasn't sure if calls were billed to room, so hadn't gotten room number. :-)
highlander55 18th Jul 2016, 11:37 AM edit delete reply

Hospital patient numbers usually have the last 4 as floor and room number floor 6 room 106 maybe
highlander55 18th Jul 2016, 12:46 PM edit delete reply

Just talked to Terri on the phone. She would like fans to call her as she does not feel we are beneath her notice as a person. She is concerned about not being able to keep up on the weekly pages but I stated we would prefer her to get better first as we understand. So if unable to talk to her at least Comment on Data Chasers for her would be greatly appreciated for her piece of mind and well being.
Marcus Ramesy 18th Jul 2016, 1:02 PM edit delete reply

Marcus typist: posted her info in the author notes... teri is in room d106 and banner desert medical here in mesa..the address can be found on google.
chk 19th Jul 2016, 4:27 PM edit delete reply

Has she changed rooms? I just talked to some guy that just got there and didn't know Terri.
Stormwind13 19th Jul 2016, 5:41 PM edit delete reply

I kind of expected her to be moved, chk. She said d106 was an observation room. Normally after open heart surgery they are in an ICU for at least the evening.
chk 19th Jul 2016, 5:47 PM edit delete reply

Kinda thought it might be something like that. She probably won't be fully conscious for awhile anyway.

Presumably Rose or Marcus will let us know.
Gilrandir 18th Jul 2016, 1:13 PM edit delete reply
So, finally clicked on the "DataChasers Tropes" link at the bottom of the page. Lovely stuff. Someone clearly put in a lot of work to get that in place and they deserve thanks. However, I want to take a moment to address the gift that keeps on giving ...

... Lynn's ovaries. ^_^

In spite of the noble efforts of the creatrices to re-order history and creation to nullify that particular obsolete bit of lore, it keeps popping up in unexpected places. This amuses me, but that's not surprising. I am easily amused. In light of recent events, though, I did want to know if someone has taken the time to explain to Terri's cardiologist that her ovaries are not to be touched? Just to make sure. ^_^
Tokyo Rose 18th Jul 2016, 3:17 PM edit delete reply

Oh hey, I need to go check that over and TAKE OUT THE OVARY THING ARGH

(I'm responsible for the majority of the tropes page.)
Gilrandir 18th Jul 2016, 1:19 PM edit delete reply
Are there any specific times that are best or worst to call?
Timotheus 18th Jul 2016, 3:54 PM edit delete reply

Considering the worst I've faced was a gall bladder removal, I can't really relate. But my my hopes, wishes, prayers, wry observations, and sarcastic comments are all there to support you in any way they can. So take your morphine high as a chance to enjoy a trip down the Alimentary Canal and visit the scenic Isles of Langerhans.
That one guy 18th Jul 2016, 4:07 PM edit delete reply
Just called to wish Teri well. She said that she is appreciative of hearing from us fans and that she intends to post an updated number when they move her to a different room (she said she was in an observation room at the moment).
Kitty 18th Jul 2016, 4:53 PM edit delete reply
Hey Teri, my Dad had triple bypass and came through very well, and that was in the 90's. The surgery is so much improved now they'll have you up in no time! Hang in there and thanks for all the incredible work you have put into this story!
Centcomm 18th Jul 2016, 5:46 PM edit delete reply

you guys arev amazing :)
Mark_L_A 18th Jul 2016, 5:23 PM edit delete reply

Man Terri is very popular right now. Every time I've tried calling her phone has been busy :)

Prayers and Good Wishes Milady.
KarToon12 18th Jul 2016, 5:48 PM edit delete reply

I hope your operation goes well! I'll say a prayer for you! <3
Oni-neko 18th Jul 2016, 7:30 PM edit delete reply
Much sympathy and good wishes.

Take all the time you need for this, your art (and TR's writing) is worth waiting for.
Mark_L_A 18th Jul 2016, 9:13 PM edit delete reply

How late can we call Terri? I usually don't call people after 2200 CDT.
Centcomm 18th Jul 2016, 9:37 PM edit delete reply

fun fact my thorassic surgeons name is doctor Somoloions like .'. as in money!
Dragonrider 18th Jul 2016, 10:38 PM edit delete reply

Teri, Will call tomorrow way to late tonight, sorry it went from balloon to open heart, sure they will give you a small pillow to hold tightly against your chest when you cough or sneeze and put between you and seatbelt when riding in car. Pillow will be your best friend for a couple weeks, believe me. When Doc says no lifting over 5LBS believe him, don't do what I did and start tossing 30lb bundles around on first day back to work. Just remember there are hundreds of Bypasses done in the US every week, and haven't heard of loosing one Surgeon yet.
The Old Scribe 18th Jul 2016, 11:18 PM edit delete reply

Best of luck, Terri. Open heart surgery techniques have advanced mightily in the last ten years. I have relatives and friends that have undergone what you are having done and they all recovered just fine. Concern yourself with getting well and we'll be here for you when you are on your feet once more.

Old Scribe.
Evervigilant 19th Jul 2016, 1:18 AM edit delete reply
Prayers and well wishes for you Terri. A boss I previously worked under had a similar situation and surgery. His was actually worse and they had to replace and repair pretty much every artery on his heart. I think it twas quintuple. I just remember he had to have donor veins not just from both legs but his chest too. He was young and came through just fine, in fact better than before obviously because the new plumbing meant his heart was working much better, and I'm sure you will too.
Stormwind13 19th Jul 2016, 4:46 AM edit delete reply

Lots of love, lots of warm thoughts. Take care. Deep breaths, you'll come thru fine. HUGS. :-)
mjkj 19th Jul 2016, 7:31 AM edit delete reply

*hugs Cent* best success and have a good and speedy recovery... *hugs*
mjkj 19th Jul 2016, 12:09 PM edit delete reply

Thank you, Rose for the update - please let us know when she is back out / awake again...
mjkj 19th Jul 2016, 8:55 PM edit delete reply

Thank you, Rose.
Haegan2005 19th Jul 2016, 1:11 PM edit delete reply

Still praying Terri!
EyeQuestOn 19th Jul 2016, 3:17 PM edit delete reply

Terri (and Krissy) am also praying fervently. Due to other stuff didn't keep up with your Brilliant story so only caught your ongoing travails just after the initial scare. Was moved to floods of tears, that day, which turned into prayer. My bad, ought to have spoken up sooner so this is to say that you and all are on my mind and in my heart. I echo all that's said as this is an Amazing ongoing story which keeps on getting better and better. The art has exploded into a height that is extraordinary and the story telling with all it's twists and turns is epic!

Please forget my trepidation at the upcoming reboots of my so-called favourite pages. Am so thankful for your graciousness in answering my fears by giving me the freedom to tell you which pages! Now though with all the awesome artwork of cyberspace and ongoing characterisation that has reached new heights my fears prove groundless. That is even with the new story tweaks in the reboots which have given a fresh light to it all. Know that this is a masterpiece and any reboots or ongoing pages simply raise it further in my esteem.

Know that Dolly was previously my favourite character when I became outrageously possessive of those pages. But with how all the characters have stepped up to the plate and have grown it is impossible to choose since they are all so well rounded. So to speak address different aspects of myself! Although guess we are all thankful that His Douchnesss met his end!

Your depiction of "Sparked" Androids has given me a lot of thought concerning life. It is so far beyond the Science Fiction I used to read years ago so is a real exploration of new frontiers. Case in point, when CeCi frees herself from all control she says, "Wh-what have... what've I done?!" which is so human!

Have wanted to phone yet am across the pond so time differences and all, my bad! Just know that even though do not say much I love this story so much. And of course care immensely for you especially at this time. Datachasers is the first one I turn to when I get round to reading my live bookmarks and that's including a few other 3D webcomics!

My prayers are for and to you and yours and to this ongoing story that speaks so deeply to us all

Cya later from EyeQuestOn (Ian in Brighton, Sussex, UK)
Tokyo Rose 19th Jul 2016, 7:20 PM edit delete reply

Thank you for sticking with our story, and hopefully the rebooted pages will be as much a pleasure to you as the originals. :)

(Apologies for the brevity of this reply; it's not from disinterest, but from sheer screaming distraction, I assure you. :) )
EyeQuestOn 20th Jul 2016, 1:38 AM edit delete reply

Krissy no worries re the "sheer screaming distraction": simply thank you that you in the midst all of this are still able to respond. All the comments and your and Cent's responses have been the most friendly, funny, silly, outrageous (speculative projections and all!) and overall warmest of any webcomic I've seen. Especially now, as the guys amaze me with their support that even though am not the recipient makes tears come to my eyes. It is a given that we love you guys! Am grateful for any update however "partially-assed" you may feel they are. From reading between the lines will say, "Krissy, please also be gentle on yourself!" And please, when able, pass on my warmest hand squeeze/ hug to Terri! By the way, I give the most awesome bear hugs! So keep those in reserve for when she is up and around.
Stormwind13 19th Jul 2016, 5:16 PM edit delete reply

Thank you for the update, Rose. Please keep us informed. And give Terri a HUG. :-)
Tokyo Rose 19th Jul 2016, 5:36 PM edit delete reply

Hugs will have to be carefully gauged for the time being, but will be issued as properly as possible :)
Timotheus 19th Jul 2016, 5:43 PM edit delete reply

Hand squeezes will probably be more appropriate (the non-IVed one).
chk 19th Jul 2016, 5:49 PM edit delete reply

Take it easy on yourself Rose. We appreciate the updates.
rufiangel 19th Jul 2016, 6:05 PM edit delete reply

Seconded! Thank you very much for the updates, Rose. I've been praying and pulling for you the whole way in real-time, Centy!! <3 Gonna continue to do so!!
DLKmusic 19th Jul 2016, 6:14 PM edit delete reply


Trying to keep us updated is hard enough, but to do it one-on-one would be a herculean task, and you have enough of those on your plate already!

Take Care of Terri, Rose! (and Mr. Black, and Marcus). Inform us when you can, but take care of Terri!
mjkj 19th Jul 2016, 9:10 PM edit delete reply

Fouthed. Thank you so much for keeping us updated, Rose *hugs*
That one guy 19th Jul 2016, 6:02 PM edit delete reply
I'd like to offer my vote that I think Rose updating the site as she has been with info is an appropriately-assed approach.

There's always enough to do in these situations that a central location for status updates is just the sanest and best thing to do.

As I understand the side effects of Versed, Teri should have zero memory of anything from the time of the shot to several hours after it wears off. Glad to hear that she's in recovery.
DLKmusic 19th Jul 2016, 6:22 PM edit delete reply

Amen, Brother.
Dragonrider 19th Jul 2016, 7:04 PM edit delete reply

Agree Rose has done a wonderful job of passing on info as it becomes available.

One further comment on the memory of what happens. The human body was a wonderful coping mechanism for the extreme trauma of pain such as you undergo with this type procedure. The mechanism is simply >>CRS<< you cannot remember the pain you experienced, also you may not remember events that transpire, conversations, people visiting anything that happens while the trauma is affecting your body. I speak from experience on this one I don't remember speaking with my boss, my kids, a visit from my assistant so it is very unlikely Terri will remember anything until some time tomorrow afternoon or evening. She is going to need rest not a lot of talk talk by Thursday she will be better able to speak in understandable conversation and have started to recover her strength. One thing we all can do is >>>>VOTE<<<< get Datachasers closer to the #1 position it deserves.
jas 19th Jul 2016, 8:24 PM edit delete reply

Thank you for the continuing updates, Rose! They really help. :)
Stormwind13 19th Jul 2016, 8:29 PM edit delete reply

Thank you for the latest update. Glad you were able to talk with her, even if she isn't exactly lucid. Great relief that she is doing that well.
Mark_L_A 19th Jul 2016, 8:31 PM edit delete reply

Thank you rose for the updates. Maybe a pic of Terri giving a thumbs up? I know she doesn't like having her pic taken so how about just one of her hand doing the thumbs up?
Dragonrider 19th Jul 2016, 9:00 PM edit delete reply

Knowing Rose are we sure it would be a thumb that was pointed up.?
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