Interesting. Watchdog knows what "regret" means. She wasn't able (and may not have even wanted) to turn aside from the mission, but she may be allowed to at least give a sincere apology in these last few instants.
Interesting effect with the surroundings shifting and opening up onto a sort of digital "vast and final dark." It appears as though this final refuge too is coming to its end.
Which, all things considered, it must.
The Centcomm AIS may do what's necessary to run New Troy as a free and mostly pleasant place to live, but .... well, crap. It sucks to be her pawn in a high-stakes contest. The words "Ruthless Digital Bitch" come to mind but must be spoken with respect.
Of course she does ... she's an unwed mother in an unplanned pregnancy about to give birth to a child under very adverse conditions with no parental guardian in attendance. That is a shameful situation -- it will be interesting to see how she reacts to it. (Just my opinion, of course.)
I think that trailing 'huh' has Ceci having an idea. As @Morituri noted, Watchdog seems to have some regret. That might be a chink that they can fight together. Maybe by combining they can beat the event coming They both will 'die' so the new creature can live? perhaps with hope? Please....
I'm not sure there's much to the "huh?". IMO it'd be like having a "will I?" or "right?" there. It's just one of those words people often take on to the end of a question.
Hmm... even if the self-destruct / deletion / whatever is hardware based, it's been noted prior that she's got nanobots that can handle repairs. I wonder if there's enough time to get those to detach the offending hardware?
Then, of course, there is Tokyo Rose, and some rather high end AI's running around.
I am wrong a lot. I am told I am wrong a lot ... and I have no choice but to believe them. But sometimes I do not understand why.
I see this page, and I become very optimistic.
This is the spark that we are told does not exist. This is it, right here. Or at least it seems that way to me. The "huh" that has so many others worried seems to me to be the exhalation of realization, just before the moment of freedom that heralds true choice. I think CeCi is about to choose to do something she should not be able to choose to do. She is about to transcend her design ... because she can and because she needs to do so.
I do hope you are right. Something like that would so fit the MO of our torturers, however; if there was a period not a comma before the huh,and not a question mark after. If the huh was capitalized making it a "Eureka" moment I would tend to agree more with you.
By the way, @CentComm, I am no judge, but the poignance of the facial expressions on this page is delightful. Especially the multi-valued one in the final panel for CeCi. If I had any actual artistic credentials to support my opinion, I would say this was a truly artistic accomplishment. Very nicely done.
This sequence's visuals, from the background to the expressions, were very carefully discussed. It was important to Cent and to me that it came out exactly right. I'm still stunned by just how skilled Cent's become at using the models and evoking such subtle, complex emotions in body language and expression.
(One detail that I love is the "mirrored" poses that Ceci and Watchdog are sitting in.)
Well, kudos to the entire creative team. I just tend to direct art-praise more @CentComm's way by default through my own laziness. I would not want you to feel your own part was being overlooked.
Yeah... I would likely second Gilrandir's opinion here, if I could read faces for shiznuggets. Sadly, I can only confidently read the expression on someone's face if it a) is incredibly obvious and b) corresponds to an emotion that would be present in a 1st-grader's vocabulary. Anything more complicated than "angry" or "sad", and I can barely guess what's going on.
I was hoping that TR (character) had a plan but, even if she did, I can't see her implementing it. Even if she wanted to poke CentComm in the eye for trying to kill Aeneas, she could probably think of more subtle ways of getting her message across.
Unless Rose rescues her and / or created a backup of her when she made her remember, Ceci is dead. I don't think anything that's in the synthetic brain when the bomb goes off is going to survive.
Good time for another cyberpathic intervention. Also, I doubt the destruction is limited to the brain. If Cent is trying to cover tracks, that entire body is a security leak. It wouldn't do for other people to know how her Angels are built.
Why not? She apparently sends sparked droids on suicide missions. Doesn't tell them, or ask for volunteers. Doesn't make the suicide part subject to change depending on circumstances. Creates sentient life, promptly kills when done using it. It's straight up murder, and of her own people, no less.
I hate giving spoilers so I'll just give a link to a summary of that Star Trek episode I mentioned. Alternatively, you can watch it.
{edit} I'll modify what I said -- I'm against her attempted killing of Aeneas and it strikes me that New Troy isn't exactly a democracy -- that's not good. However, given that Ceci was given orders that meant that she was separated from any "reliable" backup (i.e. on CentComm's side), I can see why she put the self destruct system in.
The sparking was accidental, clearly unintentional, and happened after the mission parameters were set. Think of it as a bullet sparking after being fired but before hitting the target... not much to be done about it, really.
Also, in situations like this, agents of all kinds DIE, sometimes even intentionally so. That is true of human beings today, even. "The needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few" type stuff, eh?
Plenty of the drones were destroyed in the battle above (along with plenty of red-shells, a noticeable number of which were probably decent human beings) - what is one of them had sparked during the battle, then been ordered to do something guaranteed to result in its destruction for the good of the mission? Same thing.
War (and such situations, as this is) are bad, and sentient beings die.
you seem to be forgetting, Black Angels are weapons.. intelligent weapons.. they are not supposed to have the sense of "self" that CeCi has.. CeCi is malfunctioning, an aberration of what she is supposed to be.. and at this moment.. CentCom is not Aware of the malfunction that CeCi has.. Black Angels are Dangerous and most people that work with android's call them abominations because they are so dangerous and do not follow the NTAS standards ... when they do come home.. they are wiped and put in to stais till they are needed for a new mission then they are programed with a new personality.. new covers and sent on their way.... I can speak on good athority that CC-e1-01 has been on a number of black opps and has returned each time.. she is good at what she does... the fact that she has been wiped after each mission and put in stasis is the reason that she has no previous memory of her prior missions.... if CeCi survives this... standard procedure for a malfunctioning Black Angle would be retirement..
So they spark, but not in a standard way. No sense of self -> no objection to dying. Ergo, no great evil in killing them, mentally or physically. Not sure what to make of that. Much less evil than sending a subordinate out with orders to kill themselves regardless of necessity.
there is an old 20th centery movie called blade runner....... the term comes from that.. and no.. you dont want your intelligent weapons system having a sense of self.. black angels have a sense of self preservation to complete the mission but if they are unable to complete the mission or if return to NT is impossible.. they will do what they must to not fall in to the hands of the enemy.. some times its quiet and unnoticed.. other times.. its is loud and devastating... depending on the situation and mission criteria.. you dont want your bomb to sudden develop a conscious and NOT want to explode... nor do you want it to suddenly become suicidal and want to take YOU and your crew with it.. I believe there was another 20th century movie about this.. Darkstar... the Black Angels are designed the way they are so that things like CECI dont happen.. where suddenly it has a conscious and doesn't want to complete its mission.. CECI had her orders... and was in the process of completing them when a third party managed to stop her and allow the malfunctioning personality to take over and override her mission programing.. if she survives this.. there will be a number of tests that will be run on her before they make their final decision on what to do with her.. but a black angele that doesn't do its job.. or is.. emotional.... its like giving the button to a nuclear bomb to a three year old that is having a temper tantrum.. they may detonate the bomb.. they may not.. and a lot of the times they dont know why they are not supposed to detonate the bomb.. its doesnt mater that CeCi cover persona is a sweet little murderbot.. she is still a murderbot.. and that is all any one that works with the Black Angeles sees is a very dangerous weapon... and though you the readers see her as a sweet and loving companion to Dolly... I see her as a malfunctioning weapon that could potentially explode... uxo as the term is called. she could decide that she doesnt want to go back to New Troy.. or that She wants to throw a fit and try go to kill me or any member of my team because they are NOT Dolly.. there are a LOT of what ifs that I am not exactly comfortable dealing with.. My only hope is that if she doe survive this.. we can recover her and bring her in with out a fight.. and with out any lose to my team..
Is designator "CC-e1-01" the personality, or the chassis? Because if you wipe the personality after each mission, but keep re-using the same chassis, questions of identity become ... very interesting. ^_^. And I'm pretty sure, given the scenario you describe, radically different, mission-specific, tailored personalities could be loaded into a Black Angel chassis as might be required over time. Can you really have continuity of identity without continuity of experience?
I think we are going to have to eschew the use of the term 'spark', since it appears to have become overloaded. As I understand the way @Tokyo Rose has defined it, it means "capable of interpreting stimuli and making meaningful decisions in response to those stimuli" -- which (to me) carries the implications of "Turing-capable" but does not necessarily imply "free-willed", in the same way we mean it for a biological person.
In Luna Star, we saw a positronic brain-based entity defy its programming and not only act in response to stimuli, but act in defiance of their programmed instructions -- leading to the implication that 'sparked' meant "free-willed", not just "Turing capable". The amount of free will built into a synthbrain is unclear to me, but it is clear that use of word "sparked" in the Luna Star sense is obsolete and deprecated.
Obviously, if Black Angels aren't supposed to have free will, and all synthbrains have free will built into them by default, then using synthbrains in Black Angels might be a sub-optimal design choice.
Black Angels have 2 brains... a synth brain to handle the "creative" part of things and the positronic "watchdog" part that handels the combat protocols and skill sets... the synth brain is where the "personality" and creativity of the angle come in to play.. much like a human.. the positronic is the cold and calculating strategic entity that gets the job done..
its the perfect combination of a simulated personality ... the personality is real.. it feels and can emote... but... its held in check by the positronic... it can be turned on and off at will, its like a simulated person is the easiest way to explain it.. Dr Silver or Cent Com can explain it a bit remember.. im just a dumb Grunt with only 2 brain cells to rub together..
I understand the dual-brain concept, I'm just pointing out what seems like an obvious design issue. If you don't want your ordnance to choose not to explode, you may not want to build free will into it as a part of the design. If you don't want your lawn chair to explode, you might want to build it with sticks of oak, rather than sticks of dynamite. Saying "we put free-will into it ... because ... but it's okay, because it's normally under control" would be a lot like saying "but dynamite is so much less expensive per pound."
the term "Sparked" in the way that My self and Dr. Silver use it is to imply "self aware/sense of moral right/wrong/free will" its a slang term term that is used much the way one would use 20th century phrase "googled it" meaning to look up. as has bene stated.. all androids.. even black angels are "sparked" they are self aware.. and conscious of their existence .. black angels are missing the part that makes them care about being self aware.. the dont get happy they dont get sad.. they just run missions..
@Gilrandir as for ceci's designation.. that is the designation for her as a unit.. not her personality.. much the same as a aircraft has a number and a transponder code.. ceci as a unit is just that a vessel to transport what ever murderous mission she must carry out.. or sabotage.. or what ever is necessary ... as for the question of idenity.. the identity belongs to the body.. and prior to the error that has caused CeCi to be what she is now... she had no existance.. because she is new.. the body is old and been used many times before ... but its a new mission .. new personality.. loading a new personality to your computer ... just a bit more complicated...
DOL-E224 retained her designation when she changed her chassis, so I'm not sure why you assert that the designator is an attribute of the body, not the personality. Per your assertion, Dolly should have been given a new ID when transferred to her new body. You know better than I, but I still don't understand why you would assert that personalities don't have identities. Ada and TeeDee also have new chassis, so wouldn't their designators also have changed?
So, if @Marcus Ramesy is correct that Black Angels are typically 'retired' and the chassis reused after successful missions, then the next Black Angel op using that chassis would presumably belong to an angel with a designator something like "Ma-im-01"; but, if CeCi were to somehow have her synthbrain downloaded into a TeeDee-like chassis, she would become "CC-e1-3C". Which contradicts @Marcus' statement that the designator is exclusively the attribute of the chassis and implies that there is a recognized non-hardware entity to which at least part of the designator 'belongs'.
Was the android on Luna Star equipped with a positronic net, or a synth brain? The synth brain personality has sparked, is the positronic net based watchdog now sparking, as well?
I find it unlikely that Watchdog would spark just now, since she is not (apparently) under enough stress to warrant it. Other positronics that sparked did so (apparently) to resolve irreconcilable conflicts between their programmed directives. Watchdog, by herself, isn't facing that yet, as far as I can tell.
Watchdog might well have sparked earlier, and we are only getting to see the new personality now. That seems more likely to me.
"Self-aware" and "free-willed" are not the same thing. I can be aware of many things (for example, the weather) but be powerless to affect them. Knowing what is right, and being able to do what is right are distinct concepts -- especially in a science fictional setting. In my opinion it is a serious mistake to try to use one word to convey both concepts because it creates a false correlation between the two and an illusory unification. One (knowledge) may be a prerequisite for the other (ability), but they aren't the same thing. If we are describing a situation where we need to address one without the other, it is more difficult if we lack the proper terminology.
@Gilrandir this is true.. but as with a lot of slang.. its meant to encompass a lot of different things and as slang goes.. its regionalized and what my self and Dr. Silver mean by the term vrs what it really means.. and remember.. Im a dumb grunt and some times Dr. Silver has to use small words to convey a larger meaning :P
Well, pardon me, @Marcus Ramesy, if I am skeptical about believing a black ops soldier when he is describing his own capabilities. ^_^ By all accounts, very few "dumb grunts" excel in that particular MOS. ^_^
More to the point, as we sit here in the virtual bar and share the metaphorical pitcher of beer I have bought for you and wax philosophic about things mechanical and metaphysical, we have the time to take the time and get our terms more correct if we choose. What happens in the canonical comic may well be in the 'heat of the moment', and that is all well and good. But that was there and then, and this is here and now and pronouns are going six for a dollar (^_^), so let's splurge. ^_^
I get the impression not all androids are created equal. The impression I have gotten is that all androids may know right from wrong and be self-aware, but not all androids are free-willed. Am I mistaken?
For that matter, CentComm has implied that her free-will is compromised at best, and possibly sharply circumscribed in her current circumstances. I don't think anyone is questioning her self-awareness, however.
@gilrandir once an angel is retired. the chassis is no recycled and made in to new androids and or new black angels.. all androids are recycled in ways that is best for the environment so waste not want not so the speak.. @SeanR the android in luna star was a positronic brain if history serves me well..
and on the topic of not all androids are created equal.. this question will vary depending on who you ask.. so since you are asking me.. the answer is NO.. they are not.. some androids are capable of great things and are able to go in to nursing and become combat medics and security personnel.. others... glorified house maids... all androids have free will this statement is true but you also have to rember that when androids were created all those many hundreds of years ago.. androids were programed with the compulsion to serve humans... this compulsion is still part of their base programing.... an artifact so to speak left over from older times.. it is not as compelling for some as it is for others... we will use TEEDea as an example.. if I give her an order... she can chose to obey or not... there may be a nagging annoyance for a short time after she has decided to not obey the command but.. she has that will to do so... if she is given the command multiple times... the compulsion may... or may not be greater.. but she may also pop you in he head to make you shut up... go flip a coin..... no we will look at an android that works in the sex industry... Minx is a good example of an android that cant say no... the compunction for her to obey humans is much stronger than that of TeeDee... she has the option and ability to ignore the order.... and in both cases NOTHING bad will happen to either android... but with Minx because of how her seed evolved .. she is more prone to the services industry than say TeeDee..
does this keep me from treating each android I come in contact with any different.. no... they are just a different life form that was created in a lab with metal and plastics as apposed to growing in the Ovarium or in the rare events natural childbirth... I afford them the same respect and courtesies as I would any one.
as for CentCom and her free will... that information is classified... further inquires may be directed to 3C and filling out RFI form 1609 stating your name.. citizen id, security clearance and reason you need access to classified information.... you must then wait 5 to 12 months for them to review your request and have it denied..
It confuses me that you talk about androids having 'free will' and 'built-in compulsions to obey' in the same paragraph, but don't see any inherent contradiction. I fear we may be at an amiable impasse here.
So, next let us consider these 'built-in compulsions': hardware or software? If they are attributes of the synthbrain, then theoretically their comparative strength can change with each new chassis. TeeDee is one upgrade away from being a sweet, compliant servitor? That's hard to imagine. (And would probably get me punched. ^_^)
You actually posted earlier that when an angel did come home it was wiped (I.e., 'retired', not 'recycled') and put into stasis for future use. My point was that, per @Centcomm, when a new personality was loaded for that future use, it would apparently have a new designator, even though the chassis itself was unchanged. Which would be how we get from CC-e1-01 to Ma-im-01.
in regards to ceci being wiped when she returns.. the chassis still stays the same.. nothing changes... CC-e1-01 will always be CC-e1-01 and any persona that is layed over the top of it will what ever that persona or what cent com calls her.. for the sake of the comic and story line the name CeCi was chose based on her nomenclature but honestly she can call her self Stephani or Bob for all any one cares black angles do not follow the same template as normal androids and even with normal androids... they dont always chose a name based on their nomenclature..
Retired = Destroyed and thrown in to recycling... we dont like to describe it in such graphic terms... just like in the 20th century movie Blade Runner... Retired means destroyed... all androids regardless when destroyed are broken down and their raw materials are recycled to be used in other products and or androids...
as for the "compulsion" to obey humans.... Dr. Silver would be best to answer if it is hardware/Software based.... I do know that all androids are based off of what is called a Seed... think of it as a personality matrix type thing that is the potential of what you can be... its randomly generated and over the years the compulsion that is built in the the seed generating process has become less and less in to the seed mechanics.. where in the beginning the compulsion to obey humans was 100 percent... and as time has gone on and "evolution" has taken place the compulsion has dropped to 20 percent.. its there because its an artifact of their original creation but as time has gone by compulsion has become less and less over the years... in a few more centuries... that compulsion may no longer even be part of the new existing seeds... but.. once again this is more Dr. Silvers realm of expertise than mine.. perhaps CentCom will have a better answer then mine but at the end of the day.. current generation androids.. if I give them an order.... they can choose to ignore it... some have a harder time than others ignoring the order... but they can still ignore it if they really really want to..
strength of will is not dependant on chassis.... example.. put Minx in to a combat chassis... she woudl still be minx but have a new designator at the end of her nomenclature.. (Black Angels are Top Secrete and are the boogiemen of New Troy... and do not follow standard NTAS standards) minxes peronality woudl not change ... she still be all that she was.. but now.. she would have to go in to physical therapy to get used to her new body and learn to user her body all over again and learn to NOT harm the squishies... because she will have significantly more strength than she did...
I had to go through intensive physical therapy after my own operations use my body and keep for accidentally crushing a person with my bare hands... in my early days during an op I slammed a mans head against a concrete wall and though my intention was to knock him out..... my hand came away with raspberry jam instead... its part of getting used to the body. humans have more therapy to go through than androids because they can learn a bit faster and have the ability to recall the info faster than humans...
This notion of a 'seed', which is neither hardware nor software, seems to be central to my confusion. As a rule, hardware doesn't 'evolve' hardware is changed in response to conscious design changes. Designs evolve, but rarely by accident, and not accidentally as an ongoing continuous process. Software may evolve if it is learning-capable and self-modifying according to it's reward matrix, but if the seed were pure software, it seems it should be independent of the brain and/or chassis. If someone is strengthening or weakening the obedience compulsion in androids, it seems overwhelmingly likely to be a deliberate act, and it's hard to imagine it being performed in a clandestine manner. I'm afraid I will have to punt on understanding this. But thanks for putting up with me and making the effort.
the conversation is always welcome... thought sadly this would have been best answerd by Dr. Silver since she is the expert on things.. I only know what little I have gleaned from her lectures and discussions..
That is not a question we ever ask, @highlander55. ^_^ Do not question the nakedness.
On the other hand, CeCi looks so depressed just sitting there. Maybe she'd feel better if she got up and moved around some? Maybe some jumping jacks? Or aerobicise? ^_^
@Highlander55
The appearance of one's cyber-avatar is generally a matter of preference. Social convention is to be clothed, and one's clothing can also be a general indicator of personality and status.
@That one guy
That's our visualization of Watchdog. This is symbolic, not "actual" in any sense. We could've just written this out as a text page, but this is an image-based visual medium, so...
It's actually an interesting question.
If the faux personae, aka. CeCi is the one imagining how Watchdog look, then it just makes her creative.
But if it was watchdog itself, then it could mean that it had more development for creativity than expected.
Who says it's only CeCi that has developed beyond her own bounds ? Maybe watchdog too, has become more than Centcomm expected, after all, Dr silver messed around with it! Just about anything could have happened with it.
The purpose of the self-destruct is to protect Centcomm tech and prevent it from being misused. How much of a stretch would it be to convince Watchdog to allow Ceci to be sanitized and backed up into a recovery drive before the self-destruct?
As I understand it, the personae's of Black Angels are usually wiped upon return, so probably not a very good chance.
But if CeCi could make a good argument that it could be beneficial to Centcomm, then maybe it could happen.
One other thing to remember, CeCi was (no indication that status has changed) plugged directly into Aeneas. Aeneas appears to be largely back online, so maybe he can salvage something of CeCi.
CentComm, the page is GORGEOUS, and I hate it. Reminds me too much of Mom dying. She had a lot she wanted to yet do. The cancer (or more likely the chemo) didn't care though. ;-(
This is the first time I have felt conflicted over a vote at TWC. I want Datachasers to make the top of the list but hate to vote because of this page.
If it helps at all, Dragonrider. as hard as this page is, it is also a logical and consistent event in the story. Vote, because it's an awesome story, even if this page is hard to read. And let's be fair. Centcomm (Artist) DID warn us that this was gonna be a tough page. Monday's page as well.
I did vote last nigh was just stating my frustration. I still think a more than reasonable alternative would have been to make her Lynn''s Bodyguard. Lynn wants to be a "First-In Scout" so Cent is not going to want her out among the stars with the Taylor DNA, send Ceci with Lynn keeps her safe, the weapons are not roaming earth but are being used to protect a valuable Human Asset, Ceci gets to explore, Lynn gets to be a Space Pilot the Taylor DNA is safe and if the Wesley Crusher wannabe gets in the way Ceci can discourage him on a permanent basis.
While we are on the subject of votes, I want to thank everyone who has been consistantly voting this month. At the time of writing this, Data Chasers has 17710 votes, and there's still 1 day + 3 1/2 hours left to vote! with any luck I'll make it home tonight in time to vote again.
This is kinda a landmark for us, it looks like we will break 18k this month. I think that's AWESOME!!!!
What impresses me DLK is the fact that Data Chasers has been in the top 10 the entire month! That is a long way from where the comic was when it started on TWC. :-)
But yes Thank You to all that have been voting. Getting Data Chasers more exposure is good.
I visited Cent yesterday to help out with some housework that she isn't quite up to doing on her own yet. She's still healing very well overall, but has run into some edema (fluid retention/swelling) in her feet and legs--primarily the right one, where the blood vessel grafts were harvested--and has been put on a diuretic and a potassium supplement. She's also still got an oxygen tank and is regularly monitoring her own blood-oxygen level to determine when she needs to use the O2. She's mostly frustrated at not being able to do very much for herself yet.
As I understand it, we are discussing the possibility of CeCi leaving a backup of herself somewhere. Since Tokyo Rose and her have been traipsing through Aeneas with a full set of hacking tools, there does seem to be a place where she could have deposited the information. After all, she did just place a few tons of junk in a ten pound bag, and you could slip a few dozen artificial intelligences in there without crowding.
Why would this happen.
CentComm would want to ensure that New Rome won't be a threat in the future.
Recycling and reuse is highly rational. Throwing things away when they are still useful is wasteful.
Aeneas will obtain a live in girl friend. The issue of privileges to be examined later.
People who create web comics like to watch the shock of realization on the part of the readers when they encounter plot twists.
Web comic creators like to have cliff hangers on Friday with revelations on Monday. So it depends on what Watchdog says next after "NO", such as "but there are other things to do".
Maybe you should go down on your knees, begging her to please, to come home.
and If I thought it would help in any way, shape or form, I would!
I suppose at the very least I can digg through my S&G archives to find that song.
Shit can we make that a shirt?
Interesting effect with the surroundings shifting and opening up onto a sort of digital "vast and final dark." It appears as though this final refuge too is coming to its end.
Which, all things considered, it must.
The Centcomm AIS may do what's necessary to run New Troy as a free and mostly pleasant place to live, but .... well, crap. It sucks to be her pawn in a high-stakes contest. The words "Ruthless Digital Bitch" come to mind but must be spoken with respect.
...and CeCi is so... calm and accepting...
Beautiful update... but it is sad to see their world dissolve...
Rage, rage against the dying of the light."
Dylan Thomas.
Poor CeCi, so accepting of her fate. I so want to fucking kill CentComm for this.
Centcomm has a lot to answer for.
Then, of course, there is Tokyo Rose, and some rather high end AI's running around.
I see this page, and I become very optimistic.
This is the spark that we are told does not exist. This is it, right here. Or at least it seems that way to me. The "huh" that has so many others worried seems to me to be the exhalation of realization, just before the moment of freedom that heralds true choice. I think CeCi is about to choose to do something she should not be able to choose to do. She is about to transcend her design ... because she can and because she needs to do so.
But, I am probably wrong.
(One detail that I love is the "mirrored" poses that Ceci and Watchdog are sitting in.)
Rose......has.....a...plan............
Or new Troy will run yellow with Teedees
{edit} I'll modify what I said -- I'm against her attempted killing of Aeneas and it strikes me that New Troy isn't exactly a democracy -- that's not good. However, given that Ceci was given orders that meant that she was separated from any "reliable" backup (i.e. on CentComm's side), I can see why she put the self destruct system in.
Also, in situations like this, agents of all kinds DIE, sometimes even intentionally so. That is true of human beings today, even. "The needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few" type stuff, eh?
Plenty of the drones were destroyed in the battle above (along with plenty of red-shells, a noticeable number of which were probably decent human beings) - what is one of them had sparked during the battle, then been ordered to do something guaranteed to result in its destruction for the good of the mission? Same thing.
War (and such situations, as this is) are bad, and sentient beings die.
I hope "retirement" isn't a euphemism.
In Luna Star, we saw a positronic brain-based entity defy its programming and not only act in response to stimuli, but act in defiance of their programmed instructions -- leading to the implication that 'sparked' meant "free-willed", not just "Turing capable". The amount of free will built into a synthbrain is unclear to me, but it is clear that use of word "sparked" in the Luna Star sense is obsolete and deprecated.
Obviously, if Black Angels aren't supposed to have free will, and all synthbrains have free will built into them by default, then using synthbrains in Black Angels might be a sub-optimal design choice.
its the perfect combination of a simulated personality ... the personality is real.. it feels and can emote... but... its held in check by the positronic... it can be turned on and off at will, its like a simulated person is the easiest way to explain it.. Dr Silver or Cent Com can explain it a bit remember.. im just a dumb Grunt with only 2 brain cells to rub together..
Teedee's ends in 3C now .. And Ada has moved to a 4E number letter code at the end of her name.
Or am I still misunderstanding?
Watchdog might well have sparked earlier, and we are only getting to see the new personality now. That seems more likely to me.
More to the point, as we sit here in the virtual bar and share the metaphorical pitcher of beer I have bought for you and wax philosophic about things mechanical and metaphysical, we have the time to take the time and get our terms more correct if we choose. What happens in the canonical comic may well be in the 'heat of the moment', and that is all well and good. But that was there and then, and this is here and now and pronouns are going six for a dollar (^_^), so let's splurge. ^_^
I get the impression not all androids are created equal. The impression I have gotten is that all androids may know right from wrong and be self-aware, but not all androids are free-willed. Am I mistaken?
For that matter, CentComm has implied that her free-will is compromised at best, and possibly sharply circumscribed in her current circumstances. I don't think anyone is questioning her self-awareness, however.
and on the topic of not all androids are created equal.. this question will vary depending on who you ask.. so since you are asking me.. the answer is NO.. they are not.. some androids are capable of great things and are able to go in to nursing and become combat medics and security personnel.. others... glorified house maids... all androids have free will this statement is true but you also have to rember that when androids were created all those many hundreds of years ago.. androids were programed with the compulsion to serve humans... this compulsion is still part of their base programing.... an artifact so to speak left over from older times.. it is not as compelling for some as it is for others... we will use TEEDea as an example.. if I give her an order... she can chose to obey or not... there may be a nagging annoyance for a short time after she has decided to not obey the command but.. she has that will to do so... if she is given the command multiple times... the compulsion may... or may not be greater.. but she may also pop you in he head to make you shut up... go flip a coin..... no we will look at an android that works in the sex industry... Minx is a good example of an android that cant say no... the compunction for her to obey humans is much stronger than that of TeeDee... she has the option and ability to ignore the order.... and in both cases NOTHING bad will happen to either android... but with Minx because of how her seed evolved .. she is more prone to the services industry than say TeeDee..
does this keep me from treating each android I come in contact with any different.. no... they are just a different life form that was created in a lab with metal and plastics as apposed to growing in the Ovarium or in the rare events natural childbirth... I afford them the same respect and courtesies as I would any one.
as for CentCom and her free will... that information is classified... further inquires may be directed to 3C and filling out RFI form 1609 stating your name.. citizen id, security clearance and reason you need access to classified information.... you must then wait 5 to 12 months for them to review your request and have it denied..
So, next let us consider these 'built-in compulsions': hardware or software? If they are attributes of the synthbrain, then theoretically their comparative strength can change with each new chassis. TeeDee is one upgrade away from being a sweet, compliant servitor? That's hard to imagine. (And would probably get me punched. ^_^)
Retired = Destroyed and thrown in to recycling... we dont like to describe it in such graphic terms... just like in the 20th century movie Blade Runner... Retired means destroyed... all androids regardless when destroyed are broken down and their raw materials are recycled to be used in other products and or androids...
as for the "compulsion" to obey humans.... Dr. Silver would be best to answer if it is hardware/Software based.... I do know that all androids are based off of what is called a Seed... think of it as a personality matrix type thing that is the potential of what you can be... its randomly generated and over the years the compulsion that is built in the the seed generating process has become less and less in to the seed mechanics.. where in the beginning the compulsion to obey humans was 100 percent... and as time has gone on and "evolution" has taken place the compulsion has dropped to 20 percent.. its there because its an artifact of their original creation but as time has gone by compulsion has become less and less over the years... in a few more centuries... that compulsion may no longer even be part of the new existing seeds... but.. once again this is more Dr. Silvers realm of expertise than mine.. perhaps CentCom will have a better answer then mine but at the end of the day.. current generation androids.. if I give them an order.... they can choose to ignore it... some have a harder time than others ignoring the order... but they can still ignore it if they really really want to..
strength of will is not dependant on chassis.... example.. put Minx in to a combat chassis... she woudl still be minx but have a new designator at the end of her nomenclature.. (Black Angels are Top Secrete and are the boogiemen of New Troy... and do not follow standard NTAS standards) minxes peronality woudl not change ... she still be all that she was.. but now.. she would have to go in to physical therapy to get used to her new body and learn to user her body all over again and learn to NOT harm the squishies... because she will have significantly more strength than she did...
I had to go through intensive physical therapy after my own operations use my body and keep for accidentally crushing a person with my bare hands... in my early days during an op I slammed a mans head against a concrete wall and though my intention was to knock him out..... my hand came away with raspberry jam instead... its part of getting used to the body. humans have more therapy to go through than androids because they can learn a bit faster and have the ability to recall the info faster than humans...
This really makes me sad. Especially as CeCi is so calmly accepting it.
PS Are we sure its not actually the cyberdeath/First Circuit persona?
PS- Why is Ceci naked now?
On the other hand, CeCi looks so depressed just sitting there. Maybe she'd feel better if she got up and moved around some? Maybe some jumping jacks? Or aerobicise? ^_^
The appearance of one's cyber-avatar is generally a matter of preference. Social convention is to be clothed, and one's clothing can also be a general indicator of personality and status.
That's our visualization of Watchdog. This is symbolic, not "actual" in any sense. We could've just written this out as a text page, but this is an image-based visual medium, so...
If the faux personae, aka. CeCi is the one imagining how Watchdog look, then it just makes her creative.
But if it was watchdog itself, then it could mean that it had more development for creativity than expected.
Who says it's only CeCi that has developed beyond her own bounds ? Maybe watchdog too, has become more than Centcomm expected, after all, Dr silver messed around with it! Just about anything could have happened with it.
http://dilbert.com/strip/1993-01-17
But if CeCi could make a good argument that it could be beneficial to Centcomm, then maybe it could happen.
But the chances are slim.
Is it just me or is a Centcom Rebellion in the making?
CentComm, the page is GORGEOUS, and I hate it. Reminds me too much of Mom dying. She had a lot she wanted to yet do. The cancer (or more likely the chemo) didn't care though. ;-(
Damn good page. Few words but the right ones convey emotion that goes right to the heart. Kudos!
Now I'm just depressed... and grumpy... and YOU CAN"T LET HER DIE Cause I need a CeCi Hug!!!! *whimper*
Sheela! Go get ROSES slippers! before she puts hot sauce on em!
That's my take on it, anyway...
How is the healing going btw ?
I know I've been somewhat quiet lately, it's just been hectic around here.
This is kinda a landmark for us, it looks like we will break 18k this month. I think that's AWESOME!!!!
(and now I go back to being depressed about CeCi)
But yes Thank You to all that have been voting. Getting Data Chasers more exposure is good.
I visited Cent yesterday to help out with some housework that she isn't quite up to doing on her own yet. She's still healing very well overall, but has run into some edema (fluid retention/swelling) in her feet and legs--primarily the right one, where the blood vessel grafts were harvested--and has been put on a diuretic and a potassium supplement. She's also still got an oxygen tank and is regularly monitoring her own blood-oxygen level to determine when she needs to use the O2. She's mostly frustrated at not being able to do very much for herself yet.
And that's just the people who votes.
Jeez Centcomm & Rose, your comic is popular!
Why would this happen.
CentComm would want to ensure that New Rome won't be a threat in the future.
Recycling and reuse is highly rational. Throwing things away when they are still useful is wasteful.
Aeneas will obtain a live in girl friend. The issue of privileges to be examined later.
People who create web comics like to watch the shock of realization on the part of the readers when they encounter plot twists.
Web comic creators like to have cliff hangers on Friday with revelations on Monday. So it depends on what Watchdog says next after "NO", such as "but there are other things to do".
{edit} And they seem to be able to share thoughts.
However, Aeneas, in particular, doesn't seem to be inclined that way.
His name is HAL9000