Well, I am still voting for it. It should not be a surprise that the other webcomics will be rallying their own support to respond to the upsurge of DataChasers votes. I expect a new equilibrium will be reached soon, but people wanting DataChasers to rank highly will need to continue their efforts on a consistent basis.
For some reason, the loss of simple innocence in this song reminds me of CeCi... Everything we loved about her.
See the tree how big it's grown It hasn't been to long ago
it wasn't big.
We laughed at her and she got mad the first day that she planted it
was just a twig.....
And then the first snow came and and she ran out to brush the snow away
so it wouldn't die
Came running in all excited, tripped and almost hurt herself
we laughed till we cried...
And Ceci we'll miss you,
and we're being good
And we'd love to be with you
If only we could.
One by One the best loved Good Guys are disappearing. When this was scripted did you picture Ceci, Arianna, Democlus developing the following they did? I do think Ceci had the greatest fan base and next to "The Emperor of BBQ" Centcomm has created the most desire, from fans, for revenge with this stunt. Sorry, the art and scripting are excellent but due to content I can't give it a positive CF rating so am abstaining from rating this page.
For the longest time I thought CeCi was mostly annoying, to be honest. Kinda like a 7 year old niece who always slams the doors as she runs through the house.
But when Watchdog took over, I was like... Say what? that's MY niece. And that montage when TR un-erased her was a moment of Joy! "She could annoy me as long as she wanted after that, and I would be thankful!"
Now I feel like I've lost a part of my soul almost... Over a fictional character....
Well done indeed, girls... well done indeed!
Now I go back to an endless loop of Bobby Goldsboro. Would you girls care to wax melancholy with Dragonrider and me?
She was the hope and desire for love, truth, nobility, friendship and spirit of freedom that each person has deep though it may be buried inside them. She was everyones heroine that was ill used, betrayed and left to die by the uncaring "Powers that Be." In short she was everything Kyle is not.
Do wish she could have said good-bye to "Mommy" and let her know how the Armageddon Option was stopped. Would have been food for thought when Dolly and Calliope meet and Debrief.
Ceci's actions were NOT ignored .. Rose never forgets someone who helps her. And honestly Ceci is the ONLY one who could have saved Aeneas.. and she did.
@Centcomm: "Ceci's actions were NOT ignored .. Rose never forgets someone who helps her. And honestly Ceci is the ONLY one who could have saved Aeneas ..."
That seems a little sad to me. Citing Rose as evidence her actions were not ignored? Poor Aeneas ... Doomed to be an inconsequential afterthought.
Indeed, there are many other likeable characters in the story still, which we all look forward to seeing again -- in fact I don't think CeCi was even my favourite one on that score.
But she was special to us: she was the one we saw growing up -- from just a silly kid, to someone who cares; who wants to be a better person; who struggles to find her place in the world; who is looking towards a rich future... But now that future was taken from her :-(
[sniff]
Not to put down the various other bright spots -- but I'm not sure right now there is any other character in this story we were equally invested in...
Not even (IMHO) so much that we saw her grow as that she was portrayed as a fun-loving innocent until cruelly snuffed out for no apparent reason beyond that sometimes bad things happen to good people.
It was obvious to others here (though not to me) that the creatrices were about to do away with her, but there was nothing about her circumstances that seemed (to me) to warrant the need for her death -- other than the desire for a death scene. It seems reasonable to suppose she had time to exit the 'apocalypse node' after delivering the spike since it took time to complete its deployment, but she didn't do so for reasons unexplained. Really the thing that ended up doing her in (IMHO) was the 'brain bomb' that triggered on mission-complete, which was definitely introduced at the very last seconds. So the perception of her was that of a sweet, cuddly kitten that bumbled around for a while, got stuffed into a sack, then was rescued from the sack just in time to get an anvil dropped on her head, saving others selflessly in the process. I'm sure the creative team perceives it differently, quite possibly on the basis of discussions to which we have not been privy, but that ended up as the overall impression I was left with.
The destruction of the "apocalypse node" (nice term!) would have had no direct effect on Ceci. There was no need to show her exiting it, since all she needed to do was disconnect herself from the system. She wasn't "trapped" there.
I feel that it shouldn't really be a surprise that the androids which Cent-Comm custom-builds as her personal agents are outfitted with self-destruct packages. (In a way, Kali's death foreshadowed Ceci's by demonstrating that such packages are possible.)
Ceci's demise was planned quite a long time ago. It didn't happen solely because we wanted to throw in another death scene or some shit. Believe me, there've been a LOT of discussions on this one.
Ah, thank you. I didn't think the overwrite would have had that effect, but there seemed to be some indirect implication that that might have been part of the cause of death. If it was wholly due to the self-destruct, that makes more sense.
And please don't misunderstand my comment about a 'death scene'. I did not say 'just a death scene'. I presume storytellers will play to their audience, seeking to evoke a panoply of responses and emotions in the service of the overall work. If you decided, two years ago that at this point the story needed a little pathos, that doesn't mean you did it casually or carelessly. I think, you might have been better served (for example) to add a little delay and let her enjoy her success, share it with the others, and experience their gratitude before the final resolution. As you say, the magnitude of the blow to the audience appears to have taken even you somewhat by surprise. But, as I've said, that's an editorial choice and it is your story.
"So the perception of her was that of a sweet, cuddly kitten that bumbled around for a while, got stuffed into a sack, then was rescued from the sack just in time to get an anvil dropped on her head, saving others selflessly in the process"
That's a lovely little recap there.
In short, CeCi used to be a kitten-inna-sack, but then she took an anvil to the head !
And now some say, that Dolly needs to rescue all the lost little kittens!
Whose hand is touching CeCi's left cheek in panel 3? It appears out of proportion for CeCi, exhibits some indications of transparency, and looks to be adorned in some kind of faint design -- whereas we can see on the previous page that all of the fingers on both of CeCi's hands are unmarked. The nails match hers, but most of the rest of it looks wrong to me. Am I just mistaken?
It is neither my story nor my characters, I have no say in what their fates may be or how these fates were determined. As in real life, all I can be is an observer. (And not read it if I really can't stand it. Which you'll notice I'm still doing.)
But at least I know who to grump at.
*Sets some pink roses, an apple , and a stuffed kitten out by a ceci hologram*
Ten minutes later, rash kicks open the gates of new Troy an army of glowing red eyed tedee and clones armed out their ways all grinning like kids in a candy store. He points at centcomm tower. Cry havoc.....and let slip the tedee clones of war!
GET HER!
The rash steps back as he unleashes one of centcomm's least likely nightmares!
Nonsense, what you want is an army of self-ambulatory Teddy Ruxpins singing "It's A Small World" at two decibels over normal on all audible and communications frequencies. (Not quite up to Nano Cat but we can't impose others copyrights.)
Come to think of it, I suspect that Watchdog was mean to Dolly so that she wouldn't feel upset when they went. I'm not sure how I feel about that.
However, this page underlines just how much freedom Dolly's lost. If this is what CentComm is willing to do for an angel, what would she do to make sure that Dolly and/or Lynn don't leave New Troy again fall into the wrong hands.
Centcomm, I predict, will sabotage Lynn's chances to become a Space Pilot. Forcing her into becoming what all Taylors have been. The Sys-Op, maintenance caretaker for the Centcomm system, which could bit her in the ass royally. As I recall a small item from early on Calliope was trying to repair a processor that had been repaired well beyond its maximum shelf life. This may be a sign of systems not providing the correct information when needed causing things like Ceci to be destroyed instead of repurposed.
Lynn doesn't have the aptitude for Calli's job; there's no point in Cent-Comm trying to force her into such a role.
(As for Calli's repair-turned-replacement, the only real significance that could be said to have in the larger story is to demonstrate that Cent-Comm prefers keep things in play until they're no longer useful.)
Curiously, we don't know what Lynn is good at.
For all we know, she has a major aptitude for being in a noble profession, such as a porn star, a thief, a murderer, a psychopath, or even a banker !
Gonna be interesting to find out where she goes. That is, if the story follows her, and not Dolly.
Somehow this song (link below) seems a fitting tribute for Ceci. She surpassed everyone's expectations, even her creators, and now she lives on in memory.
Excellent story. Well deserving of praise. But not the ending. I have had a dislike for fictional animal hero deaths ever since I saw Disney's "Old Yeller." A human hero is allowed to receive hero accolades, bask in glory, ride off in the sunset and retire. But animal heroes die at the end of their service. Over-and-over. Just to pull our heart strings a little extra. Although Ceci was a robot and not an animal, it still is the same non-human hero death. I feel like Asimov complaining about the Frankenstein Complex.
Malati was nice but IMNeverHO Cecil was the best we had. She combined Sexy with bubbly little sister almost innocence, yes I remember what she did to the border guard.
The next few pages may determine whether i continue reading - at this point there are about two-and-a-half mobile characters in this comic i like at all, much less as much as i liked Ceci.
The story is well-told, and there was no cheating, but when my favourite character checks out, i (in any story) i have to consider whether i continue.
I'll give it at least a month before i make any decision; if we get back to the other characters i like stage center, or if some of the others (or new characters) catch my fancy, i'll probably continue.
i am NOT saying it's not a good story.
I am NOT saying it's not beautiful.
I am NOT saying that i hate you forever.
I AM saying that for me the heart of the story is gone.
Ill be very sad if thats the case Fairport. and I appreciate you giving it a chance. There are a lot of characters here besides Ceci and She did go out a hero. She saved a entire city.
I hope you can find another Charcter to love and adore :D
Speaking as a amateur storyteller, I'll come to the authors defense and say that sometimes the plot outline forces you to do things you really don't want to for continuities sake. What seems like a perfectly innocuous bit of story development back in the early planning stages can turn into an emotional gut twister after a few hundred pages of character growth and plots that insist on following their own logic. But the rock still has to fall or else.
So you feel just as bad as the readers or you rewrite the whole story.
Or there's fan fiction I suppose.
Might have to give it a bit longer than a month; this is literally the end of the buffer we'd built up prior to Cent's hospitalization. I think we've got a few guest artists turning out some pages to help cover the gap, and a couple of reboot pages in the pipe, but Cent hadn't been able to page out more of our script before shit went crazy.
I'm not entirely sure how long it'll be. Cent did render out some panels for the next sequence before she had to go into the hospital, but they haven't been assembled into page format yet. She's under orders to take it easy, let herself heal up, and not push too hard, and she's followed those directions very diligently. However, she's mentioned to me that she tires very easily and finds that frustrating, and she's still on painkillers that make her feel sleepy and vague. She does have an appointment to see the cardiologist tomorrow morning to check her progress.
Glory to the Brave by Hammerfall
Snow is falling down on this glorious land
colors fading, turning into white again
To fallen heroes angels sting, they cry their winter tears
endless mourning days will turn to years
So this is goodbye, I take leave of you and
spread your wings and you will fly away now, fly away
now
Nothing on earth stays forever
but none of your deeds were in vain
Deep in our hearts you will live again
you're gone to the home of the brave
Every solemn moment I will treasure inside
even though it's hard to understand
that a silent wind can blow that candle out
taking everything leaving the pain far behind
You call out my name, but your voice is fading
into the wind, embraced, you'll fly away now, fly away
now
Nothing on earth stays forever
but none of your deeds were in vain
Deep in our hearts you will live again
you're gone to the home of the brave
My eyes are closed I feel you're faraway (so close)
far beyond that shining star
I know you'll find what you've been fighting for
far beyond that shining star
Down on bended knee I pray, bring courage to these
souls
make'em live forever in the heart of the bold
So I say farewell my friends, I hope we'll meet again
when my time has come to fall from the grace
So this is goodbye, I take leave of you and
spread your wings and you will fly away now, fly away
now
Nothing on earth stays forever
but none of your deeds were in vain
Deep in our hearts you will live again
you're gone to the home of the brave
The above are the lyrics to Hammerfall's song, Glory to the Brave.
I cannot think of a moment more suitable for this song.
I'm not ready to give up on our little CeCi yet, don't forget a few things
1. Her programs are in a self contained block, even if her body goes all that was CeCi may still be recovered
2. We have two cyberpaths and two master level hackers withing arms length, things may still be done
So sad. If the heart of the story is Dolly's journey in finding her humanity, CiCi's was one of innocence finding her place.
I was obviously one of many who rooted for CiCi hoping she would grow and find her center. So much character development for one to lose just doesn't seem fair.
Cent is a highly empathetic person and she's taking a pummeling from everyone here.
Please remember that Cent and Rose have worked very hard to craft a many layered story and world to go with it. They do not kill anyone for no reason. This will induce changes in the characters lives that will be far reaching. It is also to be noted that they do not use many characters that are pure evil or good, but of shades inbetween. That makes for beautiful story telling that is memorable long after the book has been put away.
Clap and cheer for them and yell "MORE MORE!" And they will continue to draw us in with more great story telling and keep us on our tip toes awaiting what happens next. Let's not discourage them guys. Not when they have really started to roll.
DataChasers is a wonderful comic with many bits of sparkling dialogue, wonderful art, engaging and varied characters, a mix of comic tone, serious storyline, and thought-provoking issues. I enjoy reading it, and I enjoy commenting on it -- mostly for either my own education or our hopefully mutual amusement.
I want my commentary to be honest, articulate, helpful, supportive, insightful and the envy of all who read it. I want women who read my comments to want me and men who read my comments to want to be me.
But mostly what I want it to be is honest. I have not always agreed with every editorial choice made by the creatrices, but it is their story and I totally respect their right and their willingness to tell it their way. I am nothing but grateful that they have elected to share their many hours of hard work with us for our pleasure. I feel the least I can do is conduct myself in such a way that they know they can depend on me to honestly express my opinion in what I hope is a compassionate and respectful way. As @Timotheus eloquently put, it's their story and we know who to grump to -- but it's a good story. It would sadden me if either @Centcomm or @Tokyo Rose felt unappreciated or disrespected because of a comment of mine. If that happens, please let me know, so I can learn to better and more appropriately express myself in the future.
Thank you.. I am right now at a mix of emotions .. Ceci's " death " was planned over two or three years ago .. the script for this scene sat there all this time looking at me. And now that its done rather than feeling proud i wonder at times if we didnt just cut our own throat. .. that could be the depression from the heart surgery talking .. im still not 100 percent back up from that. we have some really cool stuff coming your way to help fill the void while waiting. I wont say what but it involves some guest pages and stuff from some really awesome Comic fury artists! So keep watch!
Just throw @Tokyo Rose under the bus. ^_^ The art is wonderful, it's all the fault of the spiky ball of hate that she made you kill CeCi! You didn't want to ... you didn't mean to ... it's just that cruel taskmistress that made you do it. ^_^ Just like in Mockingbird -- yeah, that's right.
(In case there is even a shade of doubt, I am joking here.)
Goddamn right I did. I hated writing for that cutesy-wootsy waste of space with her bubbleheaded "tee-hee, Mommy, derp derp" babble and her bottomless closet of offensive eye-candy slutwear. That two-faced Swiss-army A.I.S.-murdering assassin-fuckbot was a perpetual thorn in my side and a malignant tumor in my script. I'm glad she's dead, you hear me?! GLAD! GLAAAAD!!! I DRINK YOUR TEARS OF GRIEF FROM A BRANDY GLASS!!!HAHAHAHA!!!
< rage attraction mode off >
When Cent gave me the first draft of this particular scene, I--no kidding or exaggeration here--fucking wept. It touched off a very intense discussion that's still ongoing.
Well, can't let the plot become too obvious either.
And clearly, bad things has to happen as well as good things, or the story just ends up too saccharine and not believable at all.
This is a very good point, Haegan. If it sounds like I'm criticizing, I'm honestly not. I understand the death in terms of the consistency of the story, which was incredibly well illustrated and told.
But if they are going to spend 3 pages ripping my heart out of my chest and stomping on it, I feel I do have a right to express how well they accomplished this.
Of course I'm sad, but I want more story!!!!
P.S. Don't push yourself too hard, Terri, we can and will wait for you to heal up.
Well, if you were talking about CentComm the self-righteous A.I.S., I'd agree about "pummelling" -- but since you are clearly talking about our dear author, I don't think that's really the commenters' intention here :-)
I guess there were like two or three who indeed commented in a negative way. Everyone else I believe is just expressing their sadness, without any criticism implied. At least that's my impression -- and definitely my own stance on the matter :-)
Congratulations on handling character death in a way that neither glorified nor trivialized it, and gave to know that death, though arbitrarily and ruthlessly imposed, was not in vain.
Aeneas damn well better appreciate the sacrifice. She'd have been killed whether he survived or not, and she made the choice to save him.
And thats the thing to remember.. She didn't HAVE to save Aeneas .. she could have just let the spike do its thing .. Rose couldn't stop it nor could Aeneas. Only Ceci could. Shes a Hero. dont forget that part.
I'm confused now. You make it sound like CeCi's death was a sacrifice on her part. My understanding was that the self-destruct would have activated no matter where the spike was deployed; and that CeCi (once Rosie restored her consciousness) could not have prevented the deployment anymore -- so she was going to be toast anyways at this point, no matter what she did? Then where exactly is the sacrifice? Am I missing something crucial here?...
The way she reacted to the situation was important. I'm too exhausted right now to expand upon that statement, however; apologies. Oh look a horizontal surface *zzz*
@antrik, I agree with you that 'sacrifice' is probably not an appropriate term here. Many people seem to equate 'sacrifice' with 'loss', which is not (IMHO) correct. CeCi's termination is (again, IMHO) definitely a loss, and as you point out, not a sacrifice because she would be lost whether she acted heroically or not.
That is not to say (and I would not in any way suggest you were implying) that her act and her choice were without significance. Obviously a great many people will be affected by her decision, and it exhibited praiseworthy virtues and values. I think the thing that possibly verges on the issue of sacrifice is if the situation is analogous to that other classic science fiction movie: Krull.
Krull is a cheesy SF movie which is distinguished by having the most quotable good lines of a really bad SF picture. It far outstrips Battle Beyond the Stars, but an argument could be made that it is contested by Hawk the Slayer. As you recall (because of course all of you have seen it ^_^), near the end the cyclops, Rell, must confront the fact that his allotted time is up and his death is inevitable. He can either sit out the final battle and enjoy a reasonably quiet and pain-free passing, or he can go up against the final boss and suffer sorrow, pain, and death -- with no hope of survival in any case.
CeCi's choice is like that, and to the extent that she suffers more from making the effort than not, that, at least, is a sacrifice on her part.
(As always, the above opinions are mine alone, but I will share them if asked nicely. ^_^)
My latest DataChasers page was served with a banner ad for a browser extension which purports to allow me to read my webcomics without having to 'suffer' reading through the commentary. ^_^ Given what little I know of the reading community here, I kind of doubt we are their target audience. ^_^
This is one of 3 comics that I diligently read the comments on every day to see what new thing has been posted, and most of the time it's several times a day
Same here. This is quite literally the only web community I still regularly participate in. I rather love it here. I just kinda wish we had a little section for non sequiturs.
Don't kid yourselves: while we have a couple dozen very active commenters here (and it looks like I'm becoming one of them -- oh noes! ;-) ), I strongly suspect that like with any webcomic, there is a "silent majority" of readers who just check out the pages, and rarely if ever bother with the comments.
Having said that, I don't see why anyone would want to actively filter out comments... Unless the software was really intended for other kinds of sites, and someone/something doing the ad placement didn't realise webcomics are probably not an appropriate target.
We see the dissolution of CeCi and Watchdog BEFORE the self destruct is engaged.
Watchdog has all of those hacking protocols programmed into her, and was "Altered" by Dr Silver.
Do we know for certain that Watchdog with a basic "Morality" framework implanted, doesn't decide to bootstrap CeCi into the Network to possibly be downloaded later?
We don't know that.
We also don't know if that is even possible or probable.
However, the possibility DOES exist, so far as we know it.
"The Archon was not seen to die, correct?" -- Golden Representative, Steakley's Armor
I sympathize with you, @Mark_L_A. There are several ways to contrive a last-second rescue for CeCi, but based on author commentary I think that, at this point, they feel the overall story will suffer if they don't get to deal with the consequences and ramifications of her termination. And, of course, if she gets brought back, it's much harder to do that in the same way.
Hypothetically, if requested and budget permitting, CentComm could crank out duplicate CeCi's back in New Troy by using the same Seed, the same Personality Template, and the same hardware mashup -- subject only to whatever personality differences the individual synthbrains introduce -- which would be just the same as if she was backed up to a new chassis anyway. But I doubt they'll go that route, either.
(As always, the above opinions are mine alone. I am, however, willing to share if asked nicely. ^_^)
Hypothetically, Cent-Comm could try to re-create Ceci. The real trick would be convincing her to do so. Again, from Cent-Comm's perspective and for her purposes, Ceci was an aberration, an unintended genesis, a mistake. She would never intentionally create a self-willed and uncontrolled Black Angel. She's no longer in the business of unleashing weapons of mass destruction on unsuspecting populations.
we are products of our experiences... if CeCi were rebuilt using her original personality template... it would be a ghost of what CeCi is.. not only would she not put her in a black angel.. she wouldn't have the experiences on the mission that lead to her personality growth... so..yes.. as Rose said.. Centcom could crank out another CeCi.... but why?
First - congratulations. A compelling story, well crafted and well told. That so many of your audience is so emotionally invested in your creation is a very high (and richly deserved) praise. Kudos to you both!
Yes, I get Cent-Comm's position. She dispatched a weapon to do a task. Said weapon was a danger to herself and the world at large, thus could be tolerated to exist for only so long as it took to do it's assigned task. The cold, ruthless efficiency that Cent-Comm tries to hide so that the people under her care remain under her care, rather than revolting or abandoning her. Now that this facade has been allowed to slip, and slip within the view of several members of the Taylor family, it will be interesting to see what backlash (if any) she faces. I can't fault Cent-Comm for being true to what she is, but that doesn't mean I have to like it - or her.
Your work is inspiring and thoughtful, CentComm and Tokyo Rose. You have my heartfelt thanks, particularly for the bittersweet moments like this scene, which make me appreciate a character like CeCi all the more. May you both live long, happy lives of creative wonder, and may we always be fortunate enough to share in your labors.
I think it's important to note that, while CeCi was the hero of the day by stopping the Doomsday program, it was Tokyo Rose who made that feat possible by her quick thinking and trust that her gamble would pay off, especially considering that she had no real way of knowing if a restored CeCi would (or could) make the right decision. Ultimately though, even if it hadn't worked, I think Tokyo Rose deserves sincere thanks for bringing CeCi back and allowing her to die as herself. There is dignity in being able to face your fate on your own terms, and that is the gift that Tokyo Rose gave her. She may well be ill-tempered and manipulative, but it comes from an overriding sense of duty and compassion that is easy to misunderstand, but impossible to deny once you recognize it. That is the quality of her character, and a measure of those who took the time to create her. You have my thanks for sharing her with us.
It was at rank 7 for a few days there. :)
…”One for all and all for one!”)
An old world vanished and then there were none. – I Will Fear No Evil - Robert Heinlein
Seasons In The Sun
Goodbye CeCi, you will be missed.
offers HUGS. I have listened to that in regards to Ceci
I hope Rose was quick enough...
Now I'll never get to see CeCi running around the streets of New Troy singing "It's A Small World" at the top of her lungs.
Damn it, there's something in my eye!
First arc: 1400 comics and 9+ years.
Second arc: ?
hoo boy. Thatsa lotta drawing.
See the tree how big it's grown It hasn't been to long ago
it wasn't big.
We laughed at her and she got mad the first day that she planted it
was just a twig.....
And then the first snow came and and she ran out to brush the snow away
so it wouldn't die
Came running in all excited, tripped and almost hurt herself
we laughed till we cried...
And Ceci we'll miss you,
and we're being good
And we'd love to be with you
If only we could.
https://youtu.be/rZiEY3O-FWk
Have a beer bro, I think we need it!
...will be lost in time...
...like tears...
...in rain.
Time...
...to die.
VERY good choice.
Sadly Ceci's fate was written long ago. Rose still doesnt understand why the readers love her so much.
But when Watchdog took over, I was like... Say what? that's MY niece. And that montage when TR un-erased her was a moment of Joy! "She could annoy me as long as she wanted after that, and I would be thankful!"
Now I feel like I've lost a part of my soul almost... Over a fictional character....
Well done indeed, girls... well done indeed!
Now I go back to an endless loop of Bobby Goldsboro. Would you girls care to wax melancholy with Dragonrider and me?
Do wish she could have said good-bye to "Mommy" and let her know how the Armageddon Option was stopped. Would have been food for thought when Dolly and Calliope meet and Debrief.
That seems a little sad to me. Citing Rose as evidence her actions were not ignored? Poor Aeneas ... Doomed to be an inconsequential afterthought.
But she was special to us: she was the one we saw growing up -- from just a silly kid, to someone who cares; who wants to be a better person; who struggles to find her place in the world; who is looking towards a rich future... But now that future was taken from her :-(
[sniff]
Not to put down the various other bright spots -- but I'm not sure right now there is any other character in this story we were equally invested in...
It was obvious to others here (though not to me) that the creatrices were about to do away with her, but there was nothing about her circumstances that seemed (to me) to warrant the need for her death -- other than the desire for a death scene. It seems reasonable to suppose she had time to exit the 'apocalypse node' after delivering the spike since it took time to complete its deployment, but she didn't do so for reasons unexplained. Really the thing that ended up doing her in (IMHO) was the 'brain bomb' that triggered on mission-complete, which was definitely introduced at the very last seconds. So the perception of her was that of a sweet, cuddly kitten that bumbled around for a while, got stuffed into a sack, then was rescued from the sack just in time to get an anvil dropped on her head, saving others selflessly in the process. I'm sure the creative team perceives it differently, quite possibly on the basis of discussions to which we have not been privy, but that ended up as the overall impression I was left with.
The destruction of the "apocalypse node" (nice term!) would have had no direct effect on Ceci. There was no need to show her exiting it, since all she needed to do was disconnect herself from the system. She wasn't "trapped" there.
I feel that it shouldn't really be a surprise that the androids which Cent-Comm custom-builds as her personal agents are outfitted with self-destruct packages. (In a way, Kali's death foreshadowed Ceci's by demonstrating that such packages are possible.)
Ceci's demise was planned quite a long time ago. It didn't happen solely because we wanted to throw in another death scene or some shit. Believe me, there've been a LOT of discussions on this one.
And please don't misunderstand my comment about a 'death scene'. I did not say 'just a death scene'. I presume storytellers will play to their audience, seeking to evoke a panoply of responses and emotions in the service of the overall work. If you decided, two years ago that at this point the story needed a little pathos, that doesn't mean you did it casually or carelessly. I think, you might have been better served (for example) to add a little delay and let her enjoy her success, share it with the others, and experience their gratitude before the final resolution. As you say, the magnitude of the blow to the audience appears to have taken even you somewhat by surprise. But, as I've said, that's an editorial choice and it is your story.
That's a lovely little recap there.
In short, CeCi used to be a kitten-inna-sack, but then she took an anvil to the head !
And now some say, that Dolly needs to rescue all the lost little kittens!
But at least I know who to grump at.
I did have a second point but I've forgotten it and that's annoying.
For number 3, I remember a line from an old film[1]:
The [name of race / species] believe that a person is not truly dead until all the people they touched are dead.
[1] Battle Beyond the Stars
*Sets some pink roses, an apple , and a stuffed kitten out by a ceci hologram*
Ten minutes later, rash kicks open the gates of new Troy an army of glowing red eyed tedee and clones armed out their ways all grinning like kids in a candy store. He points at centcomm tower. Cry havoc.....and let slip the tedee clones of war!
GET HER!
The rash steps back as he unleashes one of centcomm's least likely nightmares!
EVIL duo....
Stranger to the Rain
Bright Eyes
Come to think of it, I suspect that Watchdog was mean to Dolly so that she wouldn't feel upset when they went. I'm not sure how I feel about that.
However, this page underlines just how much freedom Dolly's lost. If this is what CentComm is willing to do for an angel, what would she do to make sure that Dolly and/or Lynn don't
leave New Troy againfall into the wrong hands.Centcomm, I predict, will sabotage Lynn's chances to become a Space Pilot. Forcing her into becoming what all Taylors have been. The Sys-Op, maintenance caretaker for the Centcomm system, which could bit her in the ass royally. As I recall a small item from early on Calliope was trying to repair a processor that had been repaired well beyond its maximum shelf life. This may be a sign of systems not providing the correct information when needed causing things like Ceci to be destroyed instead of repurposed.
(As for Calli's repair-turned-replacement, the only real significance that could be said to have in the larger story is to demonstrate that Cent-Comm prefers keep things in play until they're no longer useful.)
For all we know, she has a major aptitude for being in a noble profession, such as a porn star, a thief, a murderer, a psychopath, or even a banker !
Gonna be interesting to find out where she goes. That is, if the story follows her, and not Dolly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SS9FvIHDlWE
May everyone remember you in their own song.
https://youtu.be/NgYudFmmOl4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcYJHojTsFg
This one, too!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSi4s0BKtGs
This morning, I was yelling at her about the comic. partial transcript: "...high speed, low drag turbo powered THUNDERCUNT!!!"
needless to say, I didn't like the cliffhanger with all the physical characters stuck in the middle of a WAR ZONE.
*sigh*
PS - yeah, that applies to you too, Rose.
Just what is going on at your end ?!
And now she gets to go and see the First Cirquit. :)
CeCi is only one little cutie amongst many!
But sure, CeCi was cute 'n' all.
The guard I kinda felt sorry for was the one who found a kindred spirit in Dolly, and then got shot down like a B-52 over Berlin!
Not my kinda thing.
You know... the "You can date when you're Thirty, young lady... Maybe" thing.
But she had a plasma caster embedded in her hand .. the shotgun would be a bit superflous.
The story is well-told, and there was no cheating, but when my favourite character checks out, i (in any story) i have to consider whether i continue.
I'll give it at least a month before i make any decision; if we get back to the other characters i like stage center, or if some of the others (or new characters) catch my fancy, i'll probably continue.
i am NOT saying it's not a good story.
I am NOT saying it's not beautiful.
I am NOT saying that i hate you forever.
I AM saying that for me the heart of the story is gone.
I hope you can find another Charcter to love and adore :D
So you feel just as bad as the readers or you rewrite the whole story.
Or there's fan fiction I suppose.
(However, ZERO pressure on Cent to work any harder than she is comfortable with. We want her healthy and happy for decades to come.)
They were very shady!
And how does that line go...? "I will not say: Do not weep. For not all tears are an evil." (Tolkien)
Snow is falling down on this glorious land
colors fading, turning into white again
To fallen heroes angels sting, they cry their winter tears
endless mourning days will turn to years
So this is goodbye, I take leave of you and
spread your wings and you will fly away now, fly away
now
Nothing on earth stays forever
but none of your deeds were in vain
Deep in our hearts you will live again
you're gone to the home of the brave
Every solemn moment I will treasure inside
even though it's hard to understand
that a silent wind can blow that candle out
taking everything leaving the pain far behind
You call out my name, but your voice is fading
into the wind, embraced, you'll fly away now, fly away
now
Nothing on earth stays forever
but none of your deeds were in vain
Deep in our hearts you will live again
you're gone to the home of the brave
My eyes are closed I feel you're faraway (so close)
far beyond that shining star
I know you'll find what you've been fighting for
far beyond that shining star
Down on bended knee I pray, bring courage to these
souls
make'em live forever in the heart of the bold
So I say farewell my friends, I hope we'll meet again
when my time has come to fall from the grace
So this is goodbye, I take leave of you and
spread your wings and you will fly away now, fly away
now
Nothing on earth stays forever
but none of your deeds were in vain
Deep in our hearts you will live again
you're gone to the home of the brave
The above are the lyrics to Hammerfall's song, Glory to the Brave.
I cannot think of a moment more suitable for this song.
I'll try to add new ones as soon as I see them.
www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLVF2OapAogzXoc5Ugiu_E5E3YuI4_LluM
https://youtu.be/rZiEY3O-FWk Posted by me
https://youtu.be/4JF5GWhnXLk Posted by CentComm herself
1. Her programs are in a self contained block, even if her body goes all that was CeCi may still be recovered
2. We have two cyberpaths and two master level hackers withing arms length, things may still be done
At the very least, Ceci died a hero.
I was obviously one of many who rooted for CiCi hoping she would grow and find her center. So much character development for one to lose just doesn't seem fair.
RIP, CiCi. May the First Circuit bless you.
"Oh My God, they killed CiCi! YOU BASTARDS!!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBoTEZxWkec
Please remember that Cent and Rose have worked very hard to craft a many layered story and world to go with it. They do not kill anyone for no reason. This will induce changes in the characters lives that will be far reaching. It is also to be noted that they do not use many characters that are pure evil or good, but of shades inbetween. That makes for beautiful story telling that is memorable long after the book has been put away.
Clap and cheer for them and yell "MORE MORE!" And they will continue to draw us in with more great story telling and keep us on our tip toes awaiting what happens next. Let's not discourage them guys. Not when they have really started to roll.
DataChasers is a wonderful comic with many bits of sparkling dialogue, wonderful art, engaging and varied characters, a mix of comic tone, serious storyline, and thought-provoking issues. I enjoy reading it, and I enjoy commenting on it -- mostly for either my own education or our hopefully mutual amusement.
I want my commentary to be honest, articulate, helpful, supportive, insightful and the envy of all who read it. I want women who read my comments to want me and men who read my comments to want to be me.
But mostly what I want it to be is honest. I have not always agreed with every editorial choice made by the creatrices, but it is their story and I totally respect their right and their willingness to tell it their way. I am nothing but grateful that they have elected to share their many hours of hard work with us for our pleasure. I feel the least I can do is conduct myself in such a way that they know they can depend on me to honestly express my opinion in what I hope is a compassionate and respectful way. As @Timotheus eloquently put, it's their story and we know who to grump to -- but it's a good story. It would sadden me if either @Centcomm or @Tokyo Rose felt unappreciated or disrespected because of a comment of mine. If that happens, please let me know, so I can learn to better and more appropriately express myself in the future.
(In case there is even a shade of doubt, I am joking here.)
Goddamn right I did. I hated writing for that cutesy-wootsy waste of space with her bubbleheaded "tee-hee, Mommy, derp derp" babble and her bottomless closet of offensive eye-candy slutwear. That two-faced Swiss-army A.I.S.-murdering assassin-fuckbot was a perpetual thorn in my side and a malignant tumor in my script. I'm glad she's dead, you hear me?! GLAD! GLAAAAD!!! I DRINK YOUR TEARS OF GRIEF FROM A BRANDY GLASS!!! HAHAHAHA!!!
< rage attraction mode off >
When Cent gave me the first draft of this particular scene, I--no kidding or exaggeration here--fucking wept. It touched off a very intense discussion that's still ongoing.
And clearly, bad things has to happen as well as good things, or the story just ends up too saccharine and not believable at all.
But if they are going to spend 3 pages ripping my heart out of my chest and stomping on it, I feel I do have a right to express how well they accomplished this.
Of course I'm sad, but I want more story!!!!
P.S. Don't push yourself too hard, Terri, we can and will wait for you to heal up.
Don't worry DLKmusic, me 'n' Rose got this nasty thing subdued already!
*owe"
I guess there were like two or three who indeed commented in a negative way. Everyone else I believe is just expressing their sadness, without any criticism implied. At least that's my impression -- and definitely my own stance on the matter :-)
Aeneas damn well better appreciate the sacrifice. She'd have been killed whether he survived or not, and she made the choice to save him.
That is not to say (and I would not in any way suggest you were implying) that her act and her choice were without significance. Obviously a great many people will be affected by her decision, and it exhibited praiseworthy virtues and values. I think the thing that possibly verges on the issue of sacrifice is if the situation is analogous to that other classic science fiction movie: Krull.
Krull is a cheesy SF movie which is distinguished by having the most quotable good lines of a really bad SF picture. It far outstrips Battle Beyond the Stars, but an argument could be made that it is contested by Hawk the Slayer. As you recall (because of course all of you have seen it ^_^), near the end the cyclops, Rell, must confront the fact that his allotted time is up and his death is inevitable. He can either sit out the final battle and enjoy a reasonably quiet and pain-free passing, or he can go up against the final boss and suffer sorrow, pain, and death -- with no hope of survival in any case.
CeCi's choice is like that, and to the extent that she suffers more from making the effort than not, that, at least, is a sacrifice on her part.
(As always, the above opinions are mine alone, but I will share them if asked nicely. ^_^)
My latest DataChasers page was served with a banner ad for a browser extension which purports to allow me to read my webcomics without having to 'suffer' reading through the commentary. ^_^ Given what little I know of the reading community here, I kind of doubt we are their target audience. ^_^
Don't that that away from me! PLEASE!!!!!
Having said that, I don't see why anyone would want to actively filter out comments... Unless the software was really intended for other kinds of sites, and someone/something doing the ad placement didn't realise webcomics are probably not an appropriate target.
If there's anyone reading this who bought the commentary blocking tool and uses it for DataChasers, please let me know. Also ... it isn't working. ^_^
This is so poignant.
We see the dissolution of CeCi and Watchdog BEFORE the self destruct is engaged.
Watchdog has all of those hacking protocols programmed into her, and was "Altered" by Dr Silver.
Do we know for certain that Watchdog with a basic "Morality" framework implanted, doesn't decide to bootstrap CeCi into the Network to possibly be downloaded later?
We don't know that.
We also don't know if that is even possible or probable.
However, the possibility DOES exist, so far as we know it.
I sympathize with you, @Mark_L_A. There are several ways to contrive a last-second rescue for CeCi, but based on author commentary I think that, at this point, they feel the overall story will suffer if they don't get to deal with the consequences and ramifications of her termination. And, of course, if she gets brought back, it's much harder to do that in the same way.
Hypothetically, if requested and budget permitting, CentComm could crank out duplicate CeCi's back in New Troy by using the same Seed, the same Personality Template, and the same hardware mashup -- subject only to whatever personality differences the individual synthbrains introduce -- which would be just the same as if she was backed up to a new chassis anyway. But I doubt they'll go that route, either.
(As always, the above opinions are mine alone. I am, however, willing to share if asked nicely. ^_^)
... unless they change their mind, of course.
Yes, I get Cent-Comm's position. She dispatched a weapon to do a task. Said weapon was a danger to herself and the world at large, thus could be tolerated to exist for only so long as it took to do it's assigned task. The cold, ruthless efficiency that Cent-Comm tries to hide so that the people under her care remain under her care, rather than revolting or abandoning her. Now that this facade has been allowed to slip, and slip within the view of several members of the Taylor family, it will be interesting to see what backlash (if any) she faces. I can't fault Cent-Comm for being true to what she is, but that doesn't mean I have to like it - or her.
ATB - Straight to the Stars (feat. Sean Ryan)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_axLG1szU8
VNV Nation - Beloved
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kfc3zcnrWMQ
Your work is inspiring and thoughtful, CentComm and Tokyo Rose. You have my heartfelt thanks, particularly for the bittersweet moments like this scene, which make me appreciate a character like CeCi all the more. May you both live long, happy lives of creative wonder, and may we always be fortunate enough to share in your labors.
Thank you.
I think it's important to note that, while CeCi was the hero of the day by stopping the Doomsday program, it was Tokyo Rose who made that feat possible by her quick thinking and trust that her gamble would pay off, especially considering that she had no real way of knowing if a restored CeCi would (or could) make the right decision. Ultimately though, even if it hadn't worked, I think Tokyo Rose deserves sincere thanks for bringing CeCi back and allowing her to die as herself. There is dignity in being able to face your fate on your own terms, and that is the gift that Tokyo Rose gave her. She may well be ill-tempered and manipulative, but it comes from an overriding sense of duty and compassion that is easy to misunderstand, but impossible to deny once you recognize it. That is the quality of her character, and a measure of those who took the time to create her. You have my thanks for sharing her with us.