Comic 1447 - Combat Mode

7th Feb 2017, 9:00 PM
Combat Mode
Average Rating: 5 (19 votes)
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Comments:

megados 7th Feb 2017, 9:18 PM edit delete reply

OMFG ! It begins. Whole situation = bad.

With Dr Silver still alive, maybe the situation can be diffused, but it's going to depend, in large part on getting through to Noctis. I hope she's willing to listen. If not this could get a lot worse . .

Unless I'm missing something again . . .
Stormwind13 7th Feb 2017, 9:39 PM edit delete reply

I think you have it right. Maxus is trying to keep battles from breaking out in his city. Noctis is the key to this mess.

If they can get her to back down, they might not skate off the cliff edge. Otherwise, it could be something that would horrify George R.R. Martin! =O
DLKmusic 8th Feb 2017, 12:27 AM edit delete reply

Or... DELIGHT J.R.R. Martin...
Sheela 8th Feb 2017, 9:50 AM edit delete reply

Even if they can make Noctis back down, Astrea may still continue.

She could interpret Noctis' counter order as being made under duress, and thus invalid.
Haegan2005 8th Feb 2017, 5:59 PM edit delete reply

Point Sheela. I think you are right.
Stormwind13 9th Feb 2017, 2:41 PM edit delete reply

Could, Sheela; however, I think being Princeps means a lot to the Cassians and they won't be too quick to ignore Noctis for that reason.

Also, while cyberpaths are the Cassians' boogiemen (and women), Noctis' orders seem to make it clear she had SOME idea of what their realistic range is. She is well outside that parameter and therefore shouldn't be under the cyberpath's control.
megados 9th Feb 2017, 5:36 PM edit delete reply

Those, I think, are good points, @Stormwind13. Particularly, from what we've seen, the Cassians seem to approve of Noctis being the choice for the promotion. I think she already has their respect.
Dragonrider 7th Feb 2017, 9:22 PM edit delete reply

Looks like TeeDee and Noctis just got a divorce, the Andromance Honeymoon is ended. Maxus needs to get a stand down order issued post haste, however I suspect Noctis will refuse to issue the order and may go so far as to use the Cassian communication net to order
Astraea not to obey any order from Maxus to stand down, suspect Aeneas and Rose will have to do this and take her out.
megados 7th Feb 2017, 9:29 PM edit delete reply

Actually, I think Maxus could persuade Noctis to give the stand down order, but it has to happen quickly. Noctis does trust Maxus, and if she'll listen to anyone it would be him.
Sheela 8th Feb 2017, 9:52 AM edit delete reply

I agree with Dragonrider on this one, I don't think Noctis will budge on this point, the "monster" must die.

Time for Tokyo Rose to do what Noctis feared from the beginning.
Speedy Marsh 8th Apr 2017, 1:28 PM edit delete reply
I disagree. As much as Noctis fears cyberpaths, I doubt she would endanger Acantha's life, by refusing to order Astraea to stand down. I think Noctis was trying to get away with killing Silver, by making it look like Silver had taken a stray round.

Now that the NT team knows Silver is being targeted for assassination, I think she will try to cancel the order. Small problem, though... Noctis is no longer in charge of the Cassians. Tennyo is.

Did Noctis or Maxus ever confirm that Decimus is actually dead? If not, then technically Noctis has to assume that he is still alive, and therefore no one can countermand his order to essentially do whatever she wants. She could have been calling Maxus Lord Regent, to make him believe that she was now under his command.

Even if she is still free to do whatever she thinks is in the best interest of Nova Roma, I think she will decide that saving Acantha is more important than immediately killing the cyberpath. Once Acantha is healed and safely back in Nova Roma, all bets are off. (Though, by that point, I'm sure Acantha and senate confirmed Lord Regent Maxus will have ordered her to not harm Silver.)
Stormwind13 7th Feb 2017, 9:35 PM edit delete reply

DOUBLE OH SHIT!!!!!

This is sliding from BAD toward the edge leading to utter chaos. If they fall over that edge, none of them might survive! EVIL duo made it seem like someone might survive and now... kill everyone off!
megados 7th Feb 2017, 9:41 PM edit delete reply

It does look bad. So far, no one's dead, so I hold out hope it's salvageable, but it's going to be a very thin line to walk. Otherwise it all falls apart.
Dragonrider 7th Feb 2017, 9:42 PM edit delete reply

We are only 34 ahead of the 9th place comic, 250 behind 7th if everyone reading would register at Top Web they can vote once from this page, as soon as vote registers sign in to top web and vote as a Top Web member DC could skyrocket.LETS GO PEOPLE VOTE NOW
Gilrandir 7th Feb 2017, 9:43 PM edit delete reply
Doc Silver's drones are defective.

They are reporting the rail gun to be of Roman make, but @Centcomm just told us in the commentary for the previous page that Astraea's rail gun was of Luna manufacture. Or else I misunderstood.
megados 7th Feb 2017, 9:55 PM edit delete reply

They're probably having trouble, because they're being blown to pieces.
Tokyo Rose 7th Feb 2017, 10:52 PM edit delete reply

Hilariously enough, I just sent off an email to Cent, pointing out this inconsistency between what she said in a comment for the previous page and what's actually on THIS page. Originally, Cent had an idea of having Silver identify the shooter as a Cassian, which I vetoed as being pretty fucking impossible, but we did need to establish that the shooter was Roman to kick off the events which follow. Ha ha ha ha goddammit.
Gilrandir 7th Feb 2017, 11:21 PM edit delete reply
We can just say that the drones are smart enough to lie and they really hate the New Romans because of their anti-mechanical bias. ^_^

Actually I find it more plausible for the Doctor to ID the shooter than for the drones to ID the gun. Distinguishing, for example, between Russian-made and Cuban-made AK-47's seems to me like it would involve serial numbers and maker's marks. Possibly a metallurgical analysis of the component alloys. However, in comparison to detecting and intercepting an incoming Mach 7 projectile, backtracking its trajectory and capturing a still image of the shooter would seem relatively easy. And, once you have that, identifying it as a Cassian is easy because they are engineered for blatantly recognizable appearance.
DLKmusic 8th Feb 2017, 12:41 AM edit delete reply

@Gil: If the weapons were both manufactured on earth, I would agree with you, Gil, but there are some significant Metallurgical differences between any metal that has been lathed in a vaccuum vs not. Gravity also makes a big difference.

I only know the details as pertaining to sound, where both the Harmonic frequency resonance and the node points are significantly different enough that it shouldn't be difficult to tell whether or not it was manufactured on earth.

I know there are other differences, such as tensile strength, but I don't really have much on the details of that.

I do agree with your point about the IDing the shooter though. The drone should be able to pick up fairly quickly whether the shooter is fully organic or not, which should be enough to ID her as a Cassian (or at least reasonably speculate that she's a Cassian).
sigpig 8th Feb 2017, 3:10 AM edit delete reply

Well, we have the artist (Centy) telling us on Monday that the rail gun is from Luna, and today we see that it is of Roma manufacture. Today, the writer (Rose) confirmed that inconsistency. The results remain to be seen...
Centcomm 8th Feb 2017, 8:30 AM edit delete reply

OK in the original idea i had for the script the rifle is of Luna make... And the drones ID the shooter i mistakenly said that again in the comments . Story wise the rifle is Roma make. The Drones ID the cassian by weapon and Looks.
Timotheus 8th Feb 2017, 10:53 AM edit delete reply

It's a Luna design and patent rail gun built under license by the Nova Roma military. There, problem solved.
Shpenat 8th Feb 2017, 1:27 AM edit delete reply
Maybe the rifle is Luna made but it is quite possible that the ammo is Roman made? Drones could analyze the metal pieces of "bullets" an track it to Roman origin.
Gilrandir 7th Feb 2017, 9:52 PM edit delete reply
@Centcomm, I normally enjoy your action scenes and dynamics very much, but I admit I am having a little trouble following what is happening here. I can tell where we seem to have ended up (Marcus with a gun in Maxus' ribs, TeeDee trying to bring her rifle to bear on Maxus but prevented by Noctis, and Noctis with her hand on TeeDee's throat) but it isn't completely clear what each one did to get there. Maybe it's just me, but FYI.
TheSkulker 8th Feb 2017, 12:53 AM edit delete reply

No it's not just you @ Gilrandir, I am having a whole lot of trouble trying to figure out what is happening and who is dong what to whom. Even tweaking the image to see into the shadows doesn't help much.

Especially panel four: Marcus appears to be chest to chest with Maxus but the panel is zoomed in too far for me to get a good perspective. Marcus' right arm seems to be going under Maxus' left arm but his hand is obscured. Marcus went into combat mode and started something (attacked Maxus?), so why is Marcus surprised? (the "wha = ?") And what do the sound effects relate to?

In panel five, Maxus is pushing away Marcus' left arm and gun. From the previous position, it must have started from Maxus' right side and crossed his body. A dangerous move. And again, what does the sound effect relate to? I would really appreciate an explanation.

Aside from trying to figure out the specific dynamics, it makes no sense to me to threaten to kill Maxus or Noctis.

First, while not under perfect control, they all know the situation is much better than before the cease fire orders. A single incident should not immediately escalate the command centers without first trying to find out the true situation. A mis- or break in communication would be the more likely cause rather than immediately assume a double cross by Maxus. That kind of shoot first and ask questions later is not consistent with experienced commanding officers.

Second, shooting Maxus or Noctis is tantamount to all out war. Without Maxus to give commands it would be pure chaos and nobody gets out alive.
Gilrandir 8th Feb 2017, 1:28 AM edit delete reply
Panel 5, in isolation, looks to me like Maxus is using Marcus' arm and pistol to push TeeDee's carbine off-line. But that doesn't make a lot of sense to me, given their starting positions.

Noctis dialogue in the last panel is possibly misleading because she is looking right at TeeDee, but I think it is actually directed at Marcus, implying that if Marcus shoots Maxus, Noctis will rip out TeeDee's throat. (Since Marcus has two hands and two pistols.) Or maybe something completely different.
sigpig 8th Feb 2017, 3:19 AM edit delete reply

I believe that the onomatopoeia (sound effects) are Dr. Silver's drones intercepting the rail gun rounds (and being destroyed) before they hit her. TeeDee's rifle may very well be aimed at Noctis, and Marcus' sidearm could be aimed in a way such that a round would turn Maxus' heart into porridge...

Also, remember that the New Troy team isn't an army, but essentially a 5-person infiltration team. Losing a single tech isn't that devastating to an Army, but Dr. Silver represents 20% of their "manpower"; and is a SIGNIFICANT member of/asset to the New Troy populace.
Tokyo Rose 8th Feb 2017, 4:55 AM edit delete reply

The sound effects are Maxus intercepting/deflecting the weapons that Marcus and Teedee are going for.
Centcomm 8th Feb 2017, 5:16 PM edit delete reply

ok sorry about the confusion all these panels are happening AT THE SAME TIME.. and this piss poor version was what i came up with.. I know now it doesnt work so i wont be using this kind of layout again.. Sorry guys.
Gilrandir 8th Feb 2017, 5:21 PM edit delete reply
Please no apologies on my account. If you don't try new and exciting things, we don't get to see new and exciting things. This is supposed to be fun and enjoyable for you as well -- I was just having a little difficulty tracking the action without some kind of a 'master shot' to tie the disparate elements together in my mind.
megados 8th Feb 2017, 5:46 PM edit delete reply

It's all good Centcomm. Don't worry about it. :-)
It is an art-ful departure, and it is dynamic. Experimentation is good.
P.S. I have never seen a "piss-poor" page from you! That is a thing that does not exist.
Tokyo Rose 9th Feb 2017, 5:58 AM edit delete reply

Oi, Cent... it's true I'm the wordsmith of these pages, but ain't nothing stopping you from describing what the actions are, rather than just moping about the page being unclear. We have readers who'll offer courteous feedback, hallelujah :)
Sheela 9th Feb 2017, 9:34 AM edit delete reply

Plus it's always difficult to convey simultaneous actions.

... try not to mope too much, and sneak some hugs out of Rose ? Mebbe cookies too ?
TheSkulker 9th Feb 2017, 11:32 AM edit delete reply

No apology requested or needed. I have, can and will fully enjoy the comic without always understanding it. And anything I don't understand is usually cleared up by these posts. Datashasers is the best comic published on the web. Keep up the great work and don't let this little blips keep you from experimenting again.
DLKmusic 10th Feb 2017, 4:36 PM edit delete reply

Apologize? when it comes to CGI, I'll take your worst over almost anyone else's best!!!!
Gilrandir 7th Feb 2017, 9:53 PM edit delete reply
And now it is time for Dolly to put two rounds in the back of Noctis' head. Maybe that will defuse the situation?
megados 7th Feb 2017, 9:58 PM edit delete reply

I think that would make it worse, as then it becomes much more difficult to get Astraea to stand down. At this point, I think that anyone shooting anyone escalates, and further destabilize a the situation.
Gilrandir 7th Feb 2017, 10:10 PM edit delete reply
In my opinion, at this point eliminating Noctis actually improves the situation, seeing as she specifically engineered this scenario. Assuming Dr. Silver was able to retreat safely back into the node, then killing Noctis gives Maxus time to find out from Tennyo what is going on and have her send Astraea the order to stand down. As long as Noctis is able to hamper that, any resolution will be more difficult -- and I believe she is very able to derail any attempt for good sense to prevail as long as she is bound and determined to do so.

I'd like to see Noctis somehow redeem herself, but ... <sigh> Just have to wait and see.

Maybe Maxus can feed her to the cyberpath in an attempt to make amends?

However, @megados, I admit my original proposal was meant sarcastically. (A dark, bitter sarcasm, true -- but still, sarcasm. ^_^)
megados 7th Feb 2017, 10:24 PM edit delete reply

Understood, but I stand by my original statement, and think that anyone getting killed right now, escalates the situation. It's only my opinion, and YMMV.
Dragonrider 7th Feb 2017, 10:53 PM edit delete reply

FWIW I stand by my assessment from earlier, Noctis will refuse the order to have Astrea stand down.cConversation something along these lines:
Maxus: Noctis order the sniper to stand down immediately.
Noctis: Regent Lord General I am sorry for the safety of Nova Roma and The House Livis I cannot allow that monster to survive. I realize it will cost me my life for disobeying your order, however I have ordered the sniper to refuse all orders to stand down. *Steps back drops to one knee* Long Live Princes Acantha self destruct activated.
Marcus: Doc can you reach safety? The Cassion that gave the order to assassinate you ordered the sniper to refuse all orders to stand down and self destructed.
Maxus: Let me sent a squad of my troops to take her down.
DR. Silver: Stand down my airborne drones have it under control she was just blasted to pieces. Inside node send an armored troop carrier for me in case there anymore suicide nuts outside.

Again just IMNeverHO, in all probability The Treacherous Twosome will have another way this plays out and I will again have virtual egg on my face. Damn this shoots yesterdays theory about her being a corpsesicle in cold storage managing her android by mental control.
DLKmusic 8th Feb 2017, 12:50 AM edit delete reply

I could be wrong, Dragonrider, but my money is riding on either Dolly or Lynn (probably Lynn, cause she's earned some trust) will step up to the plate here and bring calm to the situation.

At least that's what I'm hoping happens! C'Mon 7!!!
Gilrandir 8th Feb 2017, 1:38 AM edit delete reply
Another thought, just to play 'Devil's Advocate', as long as Noctis is the only one to get obliterated, technically no 'deaths' have occurred since Noctis isn't a 'real person'. Maxus' words to Hrist about her being poor clockwork, bereft of free will, should mean that damaging or destroying a Cassian just isn't as big a deal as (for example) killing TeeDee would be from the New Trojan perspective. TeeDee is a legally recognized person in New Troy; while in Nova Roma, Noctis is just an M1A1 main battle tank in a leotard. ^_^
sigpig 8th Feb 2017, 3:23 AM edit delete reply

A SEXY leotard...

IMO, Maxus' insult to Hrist was just that - an insult to throw her off her game...
Gilrandir 8th Feb 2017, 6:37 AM edit delete reply
After he'd already defeated her? Maxus doesn't seem that type to me.
megados 8th Feb 2017, 3:55 AM edit delete reply

I respectfully disagree, @Gilrandir. While it's easy to imagine that shooting Noctis will solve a problem, from my perspective, it will not. If you recall here, she is very fast, and I believe that in shooting at her, either by reflex or by design, TeeDee's throat will be torn out. Noctis dies, TeeDee dies. In addition, if Noctis is killed at this time, Maxus effectively loses his comm line to Astraea. One could argue, that he could use Marcus', but not only would that take time, but Astraea might not pay any attention, since the order wouldn't be coming in through normal channels. Even if they could get Astraea to stand down, it would probably be too late, because those drones won't last that long.

Re: the assertion that Astraea would think that any stand-down order was a "trick" by Dr Silver, that might also be flawed logic, as Noctis had specifically specified Astraea be positioned OUTSIDE Silver's range. I think that's why she's using the rail gun sniper rifle in the first place.

For those reasons, I will maintain that shooting, or attempting to shoot Noctis won't produce the desired result.

Further, I will run counter to the assertion that Noctis wouldn't listen to Maxus' order to stand down. I think she would; he is presently the only one in all of Noma Roma that she trusts, who is capable of issuing that order. While she may not like it, I do not think she would disobey. She has always been trustworthy to Maxus, and that is why he also trusts her.

Finally, I submit, that Maxus was aware of the shoot-to-kill order, as was established in Monday's comments. Why he hadn't countermanded that order before now is still unknown. Noctis isn't operating off-the-rails here, and is currently protecting her Lord General.
Tokyo Rose 8th Feb 2017, 4:57 AM edit delete reply

@Gilrandir

"Maybe Maxus can feed her to the cyberpath in an attempt to make amends?"

... what, are you serious?!
Gilrandir 8th Feb 2017, 6:45 AM edit delete reply
No.

But I am beginning to suspect that I may be a minority of one when it comes to my evaluation of just how heinous and abhorrent Noctis' behavior has been in this matter. I would never expect Maxus to deal with anyone that way, but the suggestion approaches the only thing sufficiently horrific that Noctis might not just shrug it off and say "You don't like what I did? Too bad, so sad."

Feeding her to the cyberpath of her nightmares is probably too good for her, considering what she's done, but it was the worst thing I could think of.
megados 8th Feb 2017, 8:59 AM edit delete reply

I guess I just don't understand. I don't really see how Noctis' behavior is "heinous and abhorrent". That wasn't the sentiment here, when she told Maxus about Astraea being stationed outside the node. Noctis made her intent known. There was nothing underhanded about it. Open. Above board. Maxus knows of this fact, so then is he also acting heinously? In my opinion, no. For whatever reason, he hasn't ordered them to stand down, yet. Could that be considered abhorrent? Again, my opinion is no. No, I would go on record as saying that Maxus is nothing less than honorable.

The only time I have seen Noctis purposely obfuscate, was with Decimus, and she played her cards well. No one said it was heinous and abhorrent then. I didn't think so either.

I can't really see why all of it gets laid on Noctis' doorstep. IMHO, Noctis is being predictably Noctis. Maxus is smart enough to know this, or so I gather, and I don't think Noctis is trying to pull one over on him. I guess knowing what Noctis is like, I would trust her. She is doing exactly what she said she was going to do. One thing I like about her, is that she does not lie. When asked about her plan by Maxus, she did not hesitate to tell him the exact truth. At that point, her image went way up in my eyes.

I can't answer as to why the sniper was not called off. Noctis, predictably, would not on her own, because she believes that it is for the good of Nova Roma that the cyberpath be eliminated. She had expressly stated as such. Maxus did not call it off for reasons yet unknown, but I would guess that he's about to.

I dunno, it sometimes just seems as if it is thought that the easiest expedient is to just throw Noctis under the bus . . .
Gilrandir 8th Feb 2017, 9:53 AM edit delete reply
@megados, ... exactly who do you think it is that is responsible for launching an unprovoked attack under a flag of truce?

Is it Maxus, because he asked for the cease-fire, took advantage of the restored communications it got him, but then didn't order it?

Is it Noctis, because she knew it was in effect, but then allowed the attack to go forward when she could have stopped it?

Is it Astraea, because she actually committed the attack?

Because, whoever it is, in my opinion they are the one guilty of the heinous and abhorrent act. In my opinion, even though the actual scene is not shown, after offering the cease-fire and having Memento Mori agree, Maxus did order the cease-fire. Having him not give that order makes no sense at all (IMHO) from a story standpoint. It is plausible that Astraea never received an order to stand down after the cease-fire had been agreed to because Noctis declined to pass it along, taking advantage of Maxus' trust in her that his orders would be faithfully executed. There seems no plausible defense for Noctis, so my current opinion is that it is she who is so despicable and lost to honor as to have (effectively) run up a flag of truce, waited until her enemy rendered themselves vulnerable in good faith, and then launched a vicious attack without warning. And everything we had seen of her up to this point evidenced no hint of her being either despicable or lost to honor. So I am ... disappointed.

But I do consider attacking under a false flag of truce to be both heinous and abhorrent. So, you tell me: who did it?
megados 8th Feb 2017, 10:20 AM edit delete reply

I cannot answer as to who is responsible, until more information is available. Right now the impetus is on getting it stopped. I do not want to rush to judgement while these variables are in play. I don't want to act on suspicion. I don't know how things are done 1000+ years from now, but for me, here, now, it's innocent till proven guilty. I am not yet convinced that all the facts are in.
Gilrandir 8th Feb 2017, 10:27 AM edit delete reply
I'm open to new information coming in. And I respect the creatrices right to tell their story with their characters in whatever way they see fit. But it seems to me that for you to say you don't believe Noctis' behavior to be heinous and abhorrent you must either ...

* - have some hypothesis different from mine about what just happened, OR ...
* - not consider attacking under a false flag of truce to be heinous and abhorrent.

I'm just seeking clarification as to which. And, if you have an alternate theory of events which you currently regard as more plausible than mine, I truly would love to hear it. (The creatrices are often forced to endure my misinformed rants in stoic silence because to do otherwise would be <SPOILER>. You, @megados, however are under no such constraint. ^_^) We're not "acting" on anything, because the next several pages are (probably) already in the buffer. We just look on while the already-written story unfolds. So, please, on my account at least, feel free to express your interim judgements.
megados 8th Feb 2017, 10:40 AM edit delete reply

@Gilrandir, I do consider an attack under a flag of truce to be heinous and abhorrent. I do say, however, that there unknowns at play here which limit my ability to name suspects. One such, would be the timeline in which any pertaining orders are given, and exactly when Tennyo's comms went down, and when they came back up. When the other Cassians were relaying short range comm traffic during that time, was Astraea in range? In that scenario, for instance, all the players would be blameless.

Why is it necessary for me to blame someone?

I an not constrained by spoilers, as are Cent, and Rose, and I applaud their (what must be) infinite patience. I am not necessarily always inclined to put down all my thoughts, either; I don't want to get too far ahead, like predicting the weather, the further out you go, the more inaccurate the prediction.

I am not ready to rush to judgment.
Gilrandir 8th Feb 2017, 11:12 AM edit delete reply
It isn't necessary that you blame anyone. I apologize if I gave that impression. I simply supposed that, if you were disagreeing with my interpretation, you had your own which you preferred and I wanted to hear it.

The possibility of a convenient communication failure that let the original sniper order get through, but then blocked the stand-down order, might be plausible. However, in such a scenario Noctis would (as I understand duty) first be obligated to put forth her best effort to get the order through, then inform Maxus that his order had been only incompletely carried out. Maxus would likely have then informed Memento Mori (and through them, Marcus) that certain danger zones still existed and we wouldn't have this lovely Lost In Translation moment. (Reminder: dramatic series featuring exclusively the stories of people who only make good decisions continue to do inexplicably poorly in the ratings. ^_^)
megados 8th Feb 2017, 3:36 PM edit delete reply

I don't know if I have a preferred interpretation, per se, but that's an instance which is possible. The initial kill order went out much earlier, before Tennyo's system was damaged. Then Tennyo's comms were trashed by an EMP. The Cassians, at that point, were relying on short-range relay from one to the next to relay communications, and it was shaky at best. A cease-fire is issued, and it might be possible that some outliers (possibly including Astraea) did not receive it. It is possible that it is not known that there were some gaps in the relaying, since the Cassians are on the move. It is also possible that Noctis was notified that the order was relayed. At that point, Noctis believes it has been carried out. After that communication is restored (Tennyo's comm suite is back on line). Astraea has no reason to be on the comms, and Noctis believes she has no reason to be either, and knowing Noctis' irritation about superfluous comm activity, everyone keeps the comms clear.

I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt, so I tend not to bang the gavel until I get sufficient information. Since I have reasonable doubt, I won't place blame, and likely won't try to invent any punishments, just yet. If eventually I'm proven wrong, hey, it happens. . . a lot. :-D
robnot 9th Feb 2017, 7:39 PM edit delete reply
last man to surrender in W.W.2 was in 1974.. due to a communication error. " do not surrender or suicide, till relived by you Commanding Officer.!"
Astraea is under orders " kill it if it moves.." only Noctis can relive her.!!
Gilrandir 9th Feb 2017, 9:03 PM edit delete reply
Why do you say only Noctis can relieve her, @robnot? That isn't how the chain of command typically works. For what reason do you expect it to be otherwise here?
Sheela 8th Feb 2017, 10:09 AM edit delete reply

Noctis have done heinous things, for sure, like when she killed the family of a certain Atha prostitute, where she gutted the big brother, hung the mother from the chandelier, and nailed the father to the wall .. artfully.
That said, that is indeed just Noctis, being Noctis.

Would she disobey a direct command from Maxus ? No.
But she would argue the point long enough for Astrea to carry out the murder.
Gilrandir 8th Feb 2017, 10:19 AM edit delete reply
It has been presented that Noctis is exonerated from guilt for her many cruel, bloody, and unjust acts of terror because her inhibitor deprived her of the necessary free will to choose otherwise. In my opinion, where there is no choice there can be no legitimate guilt. (Someone might feel guilty, anyway, but that's a completely different topic.)

If she had even argued the order, as she did the order about restoring the hardline, that would have been something. This ... this is just black betrayal.
Dragonrider 8th Feb 2017, 12:58 PM edit delete reply

FWIW @Gilrandir I 150% agree with you and feeding her to Doc Silver for her personal use as a slave to clean the toilets, grease traps, swab the sewers and any other demeaning, degrading job in New Troy assigned allowing her to remember who she was, what position she occupied, why she lost it, removing her ability to self destruct and who placed the mental restraints on her leaving her unable to break the bonds the Cyberpath placed upon her is a fate far to kind.
A Flag of Truce is inviolate since time immemorial, that is why the punishments for those who violate it are so severe. All sides must know they can meet to negotiate terms for prisoner exchange remove dead and wounded from the battlefield, discuss cease fire, surrender terms, set open cities, and safety zones for civilians caught in cross fire. Anyone or anything that willfully violates a flag of truce and cease fire does not deserve the right to exist.
Gilrandir 8th Feb 2017, 1:59 PM edit delete reply
For those who may be curious, it may be worthy of note that a false flag of truce is among the very first items on the list of acts of Perfidy defined as war crimes by widespread international statute, custom, and practice.
TheSkulker 9th Feb 2017, 12:19 PM edit delete reply

@Gilrandir, Thank you for the word and link. While I agree that perfidy is a horrible act and should be listed as a war crime, it seems that it is widely practiced with impunity. For example, the Syrians repeatedly breaking cease-fires in Syria, the Russians in Ukraine (even going so far as to shoot down an unarmed commercial plane), the Israelis in the Gaza strip to name just a few of the current day tragedies. Or the famous WWI Christmas Truce of 1914. (As I understand it, while unofficial it was real and an Allied/American commander ordered the Allied soldiers to fire on the unarmed Germans after the second or third day.) Are these not all examples of perfidy that are not being met without outrage? what am I missing?
Gilrandir 9th Feb 2017, 12:37 PM edit delete reply
Apparently, we live in an imperfect world. <melancholy sigh>

I think there is probably more outrage about these and like acts than is immediately visible, while at the same time I agree with you that there seems to be much less than is needed. I cannot in any way disagree that perfidious conduct is much less rare than I would have it be if the world and its people were mine to direct. On the other hand, to quote Tolkien, "... but it would not end that way."

On further reflection, I can add this. I started this rant of what has turned out to be epic proportions because my understanding of Noctis' behavior and circumstances was so disappointing -- and this, in turn, was because all my previous experience of her was so positive. She seemed to me an honorable and tragic figure doing the best she could under difficult circumstances, and approaching it, overall, with as much good humor and compassion as she was allowed. This, then, represented a gross and shocking departure from an exemplar, wth consequent emotional impact to me. To be honest, my opinion of generic Syrians, faceless Russians, remote Israelis, or random Americans (even soldiers) is not so high. So, their ethical failures are not so deeply disappointing. Still regrettable and worthy of condemnation, but not as emotionally wrenching.

On the other hand, that may just be me. <shrug>
DLKmusic 8th Feb 2017, 2:54 PM edit delete reply

@Gil: I am going to throw a hypothetical at you, that might help explain Noctis's position on the cyberpath.

Let us say that Japan an Korea go to war. One of the weapons at Japan's disposal is Godzilla, which is let loose on Korea.

Japan and Korea agree to a temporary cease fire... Does Korea violate that cease fire if they still try to destroy Godzilla?

Let us complicate it a little. While the cease fire is called, Godzilla is currently sleeping in a known location, and the Korean forces actually have a shot at being able to destroy it.

Please don't misconstrue this hypothetical as my condoning Noctis's actions here. (I'm one of the few fans that actually LIKE Doc Silver and her Heavy Assault Drone Gospel choir). But I am trying to help put Noctis's Position and decision in perspective.
Gilrandir 8th Feb 2017, 3:19 PM edit delete reply
I will happily reply to your hypotheticals. The following are only my opinion, the tribunal at The Hague may well rule differently. ^_^

CASE 1A: Japan, having deployed the Biological Continental Seige Unit - 1 (code named "Godzilla") offers a cease-fire to Korea. Korea accepts. After the acceptance, Godzilla continues to rampage. Japan has broken the cease-fire and Korea may retaliate against Godzilla without reprisal.

CASE 1B: Japan, with Godzilla deployed and the cease-fire in effect, manages (somehow -- possibly by deploying a giant, skyscraper-shaped, rubber lizard chew-toy) to restrain Godzilla from engaging in destructive activities, even though he remains (quietly) on Korean soil. If Korea attacks, they are violating the cease-fire and guilty of a war crime -- regardless of whether their attacks have any effect or not.

CASE 2A: Godzilla, while deployed, falls asleep. Korea quickly mobilizes anti-lizard batteries to engage and destroy Godzilla while it is vulnerable. Japan alertly requests that Korea agree to a cease-fire, and Korean leadership, in a fit of incredible stupidity and madness, agrees. If Korea carries through the attack after agreeing to the cease-fire, they are guilty of war crimes. Expect unrestricted warfare and weapons of mass destruction to rain down on Korean cities in the near future, unless the Korean diplomats start talking very fast and very convincingly.

CASE 2B: Sleeping Godzilla is now surrounded by anti-Godzilla weaponry which has taken advantage of the cease-fire to move into position, but has not yet attacked. The negotiated window of the cease-fire expires ... BLAM! Korean barebecued lizard steaks for everyone! No violation. Japan begins the thawing of BCSU-2.

I won't claim it is right, but I hope it is consistent.
Tokyo Rose 8th Feb 2017, 3:50 PM edit delete reply

I'd present an argument on Noctis's behalf, but frankly, I'm enjoying the mental image of Godzilla as a deployable war kaiju way too fucking much to do anything but giggle over my keyboard right now.
megados 8th Feb 2017, 5:05 PM edit delete reply

@Tokyo Rose- And that just makes me think that it comes with one of those little R/C car controllers with the pull-up telescoping whip antenna and two joy sticks . . .
Morituri 8th Feb 2017, 5:40 PM edit delete reply
Tokyo has a lot of problems with that sort of thing, but seriously, what did they expect when they built their capital city right on the giant monster migration route?
DLKmusic 9th Feb 2017, 12:53 AM edit delete reply

Thank you Rose, Always good to know my sense of humor is still on point. 8)

@Gil: For clarification of your answer, I have 2 more questions...

1: Would you consider the initial release of Godzilla on foreign soil a war crime to begin with... ie: use of a WMD.

2: Do you disagree that the highest priority of a government is the safety of it's citizens?

(P.S. Yes, I do understand that that's pretty deep for a hypothetical)
Gilrandir 9th Feb 2017, 1:38 AM edit delete reply
1) To some extent that depends upon the degree of control over Godzilla that may reasonably be expected. As I understand it, the mere use of a WMD isn't necessarily a war crime, though it may be a treaty violation. On the other hand excessive and unnecessary damage to civilian properties and persons, and knowingly using weapons that will cause such, is a war crime. I am unsure about how much collateral damage is considered 'acceptable', and I suspect that it depends to an extent on the tech available during the era in which the war is fought. If the idea was to just turn him loose and let him rampage in an uncontrolled fashion over everything and anything in his path, then yes, that would be a war crime.

2) Yes, I disagree. The purpose of a government is to address the "Tragedy of the Commons". This includes marshaling necessary resources of the nation to accomplish things better not delegated to private parties. The safety of the nation's citizenry is certainly commonly entered on the list of those things. However, if you subscribe to the notion that the just power of the government derives from the consent of the governed, then the implication is that the governed should have a say in their government's priorities. To take a particular example, "provide for the common defense" comes after "establish justice" and "secure domestic tranquility" on at least one such list. (Though that list may not have been prepared in order of descending priority. ^_^) This means that for any particular government, the safety of its citizens may be its highest priority, but I don't agree that it necessarily is in all cases.
DLKmusic 9th Feb 2017, 2:32 AM edit delete reply

@Gil: Those are both good and well reasoned answers (although the same can be said about pretty much all of your comments, including the ones I disagree with).

With that being said, by your own definition, Destroying Godzilla after him being turned loose on the countryside would be no more a violation of a cease fire than would disarming a bomb that was dropped in a town square but didn't detonate.

Again, I am not condoning Noctis's actions, but in light of this hypothetical I would ask you to consider the following.

1. Doc Silver is a cyberpath, She has already demonstrated the capacity and willingness to completely destroy the infrastructure of New Rome, and (according to Noctis's beliefs, whether or not they have merit) have the ability to do the same to the Cassians. The Cassians have no defense, and there is nothing to indicate that the NT commander (Marcus) has the ability to stop her from doing whatever she wants to. Those of us who actually know Doc Silver can also reasonably argue that this is true (let's face it, the woman is 2 lost arguments away from developing the catch phrase "FOOLS, I will destroy you ALL!").

2. One of Noctis's prime objectives is the preservation and continuance of the Cassians. This takes as high of a priority as possible in her mind. As Dragonrider has stated this is a priority even higher than her own life.

Again, I am not condoning Noctis's decision, but I do understand it.
Tokyo Rose 9th Feb 2017, 6:37 AM edit delete reply

I want to thank Gilrandir, megados, and DLKmusic for one of the best fucking discussions I have EVER seen on the internet, on any topic, ever. (Mister Black wishes me to add that he concurs.) Y'all are being infallibly polite while presenting solid, well-reasoned points for your respective stances. I am really, really impressed (as well as amused) by the clarity and courtesy on display here. RUN FOR PUBLIC OFFICE I WILL FUCKING VOTE FOR YOU.
megados 9th Feb 2017, 7:01 AM edit delete reply

I . . . wow, I mean, I . . . just wow. Thanks, Rose (and Mr Black). I don't know what to say. I have no words, except thank you, and please realize that without you and Cent, we would not have this opportunity to have this discussion. You both have my heartfelt thanks.

Without you and Cent, this would just be another 404 error page on the internet.

**edit
One thing I have to add, is that I could not have any sort of reasoning without the help from the rest of the community. The research and input they put time and effort into, and their ideas, play a huge part in any of these discussions. Kudos to all of them.
Gilrandir 9th Feb 2017, 8:11 AM edit delete reply
Thank you, @Tokyo Rose. Compliments are always nice to hear.

If your sense of wistful nostalgia for the "old" Internet grows too strong, let me know and I can call Godzilla a Nazi for you. ^_^
DLKmusic 9th Feb 2017, 3:58 PM edit delete reply

Thank you Rose. (IMHO) We try to be civil even when we disagree, because at the end of the day we are still friends and would like to keep it that way!

IT always helps when you think of it as a difference of opinion and not a pissing contest. I would also like to commend both Gil and Megados for thinking along the same lines.
Gilrandir 9th Feb 2017, 4:30 PM edit delete reply
Debate is a crucible within which wordsmiths place statements of fact, opinion, and fancy in order to refine from it such truths as may be had. You're supposed to put the ore in the crucible, not your partners. ^_^

My thanks to all who contributed nuggets, large or small. And I am happy to have contributed what I could.
megados 9th Feb 2017, 7:00 PM edit delete reply

I think Bill Nye said it best: "Everyone you will ever meet knows something that you don't".
Gilrandir 9th Feb 2017, 8:42 AM edit delete reply
Responses, @DLKmusic ...

1) I disagree. She has attacked communication and command, leaving untouched things like water, power, transport, records, etc. Many of her disruptions are of a transient nature. AHAB would have been an example of the sort of permanent and indiscriminate widespread destruction of infrastructure more comparable to Godzilla. The sort of damage she may be capable of doing is a very different topic than the actual damage she has done so far.

2) Objection! Presumes facts not in evidence! This relates to my previous observation that it is difficult (given what has gone before) to say what behavior is the result of free-willed choice by Noctis and what is imposed by her inhibitor -- coupled by the reasonable (but unjustified) assumption that all Cassian inhibitors (except Kali, but she's a special case) are programmed in the same way. Cassians would appear (to me) to have several higher priorities than the preservation of themselves and their kind, though I agree that Noctis seems to have strong feelings of regard and care for her 'sisters' which motivate her to act in their interests when possible.

I'd also like to point out that we are told that human psionics is a well-known and well-studied phenomenon on Datachasers Earth. If the fear and hatred of cyberpaths is so strong as to force/permit them to act so unilaterally and preemptively against cyberpaths, they should have been driven to desert their posts (or at least dispatch roving assassination teams) to pre-emptively locate and kill cyberpaths wheresoever they might be found. Yet there is no evidence of that. People have made many arguments that it is the intense and overwhelming emotion that gives Noctis the power and motivation to override her inhibitor and act this way in spite of Maxus' clear and explicit wishes, ignoring that Noctis continues to appear calm, aloof, and as cool as the other side of the pillow. It also seems foolish and illogical to poke the cyberpath-bogeyman when she is leaving! The New Trojans appear to have accomplished their mission and are withdrawing. It sucks to have gotten your ass kicked, but at this point Noctis should be buying Dr. Silver a bus ticket and speeding her on her way, not encouraging her (and the other New Trojans) to stay where she is and initiate new hostilities and attacks.

If there is any logical and consistent explanation for what Noctis appears to have done and not done -- including that she is just a vile person who has been fooling us all up to now -- I'm not seeing it. Just have to wait and see, I suppose.
megados 9th Feb 2017, 9:44 AM edit delete reply

If I may . . .

The first part I think I should address, is that I do not believe that there is/was any direct disobedience by any of the Cassians, so in that regard, I feel that the activation of inhibitors is unlikely, and that point would be moot. As I understand it, there would be no inhibitor response unless the individual disobeyed, or tried to disobey commands properly given by a superior, or actions that would run counter to their mission to the palace, and to Nova Roma.

Dr Silver hasn't done anything outside the scope of her mission. She posed no further threat that I know of. The kill order was placed well before it was known what her purpose in Nova Roma was. By snafu, or by design, the order was not rescinded.

Noctis, and the Cassians have a reasonable concern as to Dr Silver's presence, both as a threat direct!y to Nova Roma, and to the Cassians themselves. Additionally, a threat to the Cassians is, by extension, a threat to the city-state. The Cassians have no way of knowing the scope of Dr Silver's mission, nor whether it is complete. They do not, for instance, know if she has left any "ticking time bombs". Noctis herself seems to have an additional phobia concerning cyberpaths. I believe that these conditions elevate the threat level as far as the Cassians are concerned.

If Noctis would wear her tinfoil hat, maybe she wouldn't have to fear Dr Silver so much . . :-D
Gilrandir 9th Feb 2017, 9:59 AM edit delete reply
Do you think, @megados, that an order was given for Roma forces to cease-fire against the rebel forces currently disrupting the Palace? (I'll point out that the actual cease-fire was negotiated between Maxus and Marcus, so anyone trying to argue that an agreement protecting Memento Mori doesn't apply to Dr. Silver has, in my opinion, a tough row to hoe.) If so, how do you reconcile that with your statement that there was no disobedience by any Cassians? If not, why did Roma forces stop shooting? If they didn't stop shooting, why haven't we heard about it (until now)?

Frankly, I am a bit surprised that the Praetorians seem to have been more loyal than the Cassians, in this case. At least we haven't seen any instance of them violating the cease-fire (though we did see them violating a rebel prisoner). A fact that I am sure Adventus Albus would have pointed out to Noctis afterwards if Tennyo hadn't cut off that avenue of discussion pre-emptively. ^_^
megados 9th Feb 2017, 10:11 AM edit delete reply

I am not sure which Nova Roma forces you mean, (whether the blue Praetorians or the red Elites), but let's say it's the Elites (Maxus' forces). In that case I say yes.

I still maintain, that it is not by willful disobedience that the kill order was not rescinded, even if the scenario I laid out earlier is not enough. If this is an act of disobedience, there should be Cassians writhing on the floor in pain due to inhibitor activation.
Gilrandir 9th Feb 2017, 10:17 AM edit delete reply
No other Cassians appear to have disobeyed anything ... they are no longer engaging rebel forces. If Astraea never got an order to stand down, then she isn't disobeying anything. She is doing the best she can to carry out all the orders which she has been given.
megados 9th Feb 2017, 10:27 AM edit delete reply

For Noctis to have willfully disobeyed, we would be seeing, for the first time, how she reacts to inhibitor activation as well. An order to stand down wouldn't provide any of the "wiggle room" she's accustomed to exploiting. IMHO
Gilrandir 9th Feb 2017, 10:41 AM edit delete reply
And yet, we don't see that. Our opinions aside, the one thing you can't argue is canon. The actual constraints of the Cassian inhibitor and the actual text of the stand-down order are (to this point) sufficiently indeterminate and vague that we can only speculate.
megados 9th Feb 2017, 10:49 AM edit delete reply

That is exactly right, @Gilrandir. It is that exact sentiment which prevents me from rendering any kind of judgement.

Thank you for an enlightening, and well reasoned discussion! :-D
Gilrandir 9th Feb 2017, 10:54 AM edit delete reply
You're quite welcome. And thank you for your own contributions to it.
megados 8th Feb 2017, 3:45 PM edit delete reply

@Sheela, I agree with Gilrandir as to atrocities carried out by Noctis, and the reasoning regarding her inhibitor.

I think she might balk at giving a stand-down order, but I don't think she would argue at length about it. If Maxus gave her the order, my guess is she would do it. I think it would go much the same as when Maxus ordered her to give them the door code to get the hard line up.
Dragonrider 8th Feb 2017, 4:44 PM edit delete reply

@megados Afraid I disagree, she knew when she was ordered to allow the com net too be restored for the cease fire she had issued a kill on sight order and did not rescind it. As I stated earlier she is acting within the paradigm she was created to follow. Protect the House Livis and the Kingdom of Nova Roma. In her logic circuits the Cyberpath represents a clear and present danger(sorry Tom Clancy) to both therefore she is within the correct logic path to refuse to order the stand down and will go as far as ordering Astrea to ignore any orders to stand down issued by anyone except her. The only way to stop Astrea now is to destroy her before she kills Veronica Silver.
megados 8th Feb 2017, 4:54 PM edit delete reply

I respect your opinion @Dragonrider. I realize that Noctis views Silver as a high priority target, but I am betting her loyalty to Maxus is higher. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. For now, we have to wait and see what shakes out, I guess.
xpacetrue 9th Feb 2017, 12:33 AM edit delete reply

@megados

I believe that you were mistaken when you said, "...when she told Maxus about Astraea being stationed outside the node". I do not believe she ever informed him of this. And even if she did, she must have only made a seemingly innocent comment about it that did not convey the purpose of this order. As such, I'd say the blame lays SQUARELY on Noctis' shoulders. Maxus is blameless here. That should be obvious by how the surprise he conveys here about this turn of events can't be anything but completely genuine.
Timotheus 9th Feb 2017, 3:34 AM edit delete reply

As a completely outside the realm of this topic comment, you do know the Chinese government has used out takes of Japanese live action Gundam movies to justify their claims that Japan is re-militarizing and they need to build up their forces to counter them?
Guest 9th Feb 2017, 5:48 AM edit delete reply
Respectfully, @xpacetrue, as it was pointed out to me by Sheela, Maxus does know. She tells him on this page. That's why it is still unclear to my why the kill order was not rescinded.
megados 9th Feb 2017, 5:51 AM edit delete reply

Above "guest comment" to @xpacetrue mine; I forgot to log in. :-/

At any rate, I'm not ready to blame Noctis at this time.
Sheela 9th Feb 2017, 10:11 AM edit delete reply

Allright guys, I think you are going off on a tangent once again, we need to get back to cute little Godzilla having nappies!

So, let me reset the Japan//Korean war scenario for you guys!!

Korea : "Oh Japan, you make me so.."
Japan : "oh, oh, the way you touch me!"
Korea : ".. you know you want to!"
Japan : "Aannnh ... sempai."
Kor->>> ERROR, RUN STOP - PROGRAM BREAK!!

Whoops, sorry guys, wrong fanfic!
Here we go :

Japan : "You're so mean!" >:(
Korea : "And you are a poo-poo-head!"
Japan : "I hate you so much! - Have at thee!" *sends army*
Korea : "Ha haah, you're so weak, my army can easily overpower yours!"
Japan : "FFfuuuuuuuuu ..... I am not so easily avoided, GODZILLA!" *sends Godzilla*
Godzilla : *RAWR*
Korea : "Arrgh, my roads, my bridges - MY CITIES!"
Japan : "Ha ha ha ha ha!"
Godzilla : *RAWR* *RAWR*
Korea : "Dude, how could you do that ?"
Korea : "That's fucking nasty!"
Japan : "Pfft, whatevs, I'm the strongest."
Korea : "OMG it ate a skyscraper!"
Godzilla : *RAWR*
Korea : "Oh no, Godzilla also ate my dakimakura!"
Japan : "Aaah ha ha ha ha!"
Godzilla : *RAW---* *yawn*
Godzilla : *goes to sleep*
Korea : "Oh god, finally he stopped rampaging!"
Japan : "Ha ha ha, good shit"
Korea : "No, no it's not, it's just shit!"
Japan : "Yeah, well, you wanna surrender?"
Korea : "..."
Japan : "End the war at least ?"
Korea : "No, I'm still pissed at you!"
Japan : "Cease-fire?"
Korea : "..."
Japan : "Want me to wake up Godzilla?"
Korea : *flips table* "OK, fine - Ceasefire!"
Japan : "He he he, ok."
Korea : "moves a few big guns to napping Godzilla*
Korea : "BOOOM*
Japan : "HEY - WTF?"
Japan : "We had a ceasefire!"
Korea : "Whatever, now *you* don't have a Godzilla, and our army is stronger than yours."
Korea : "GTFO of my country!"
Japan : "But .. but .."
Korea : "RIGHT NOW!"
Japan : "You're so mean!" :´(



Yes, Korea broke the ceasefire, but it also destroyed the WMD and kicked out the intruders.
In a way, it becomes a "the goal justifies the means" way of thinking, which is a very common way of though during war.
You *will* find generals that will speculate in breaking cease fires for military gain.

On a sidenote, Japan is a total dick in this sketch!
Gilrandir 9th Feb 2017, 10:25 AM edit delete reply
Absolutely true, @Sheela. (And very amusing. ^_^) And they do more than speculate. There are many historical examples of truces being treacherously broken and then (because the treacherous side wins) the criminals never being held to account.

It seems we live in an imperfect world. <melancholy sigh>
Sheela 9th Feb 2017, 10:28 AM edit delete reply

The situation is very similar to the situation as viewed from Noctis' point of view.

Except that it was Prince douchebag that started it all.
Gilrandir 9th Feb 2017, 10:43 AM edit delete reply
Except, in your situation, Korea isn't equipped with an inhibitor and the cease-fire wasn't imposed on them from a position of authority which may (or may not) have command over them.
megados 9th Feb 2017, 10:33 AM edit delete reply

Thanks, @Sheela, I needed that! :-D

DLKmusic 9th Feb 2017, 3:53 PM edit delete reply

Sheela, You gotta stop doing these things!!! there's only so much room in your "Top 5", and I'm having a harder and harder time deciding which ones belong there!!!!

Thatwasgawdawfulhilarious!!!!!

I do have one question about your scenario though... Who's the lucky soul that has to clean up all the Zilla-pies?
TheSkulker 9th Feb 2017, 11:01 AM edit delete reply

@xpacetrue said: 'I believe that you were mistaken when you said, "...when she told Maxus about
Astraea being stationed outside the node". I do not believe she ever informed him of this.'

Huh??? With all due respect good sir, have you not been reading the posts? Unless I am really missing something, the relevant link has been posted and discussed numerous times - specifically "Taking up the sword", comic #1279, published 18 Nov 2015, http://datachasers.thecomicseries.com/comics/1279:

Noctis: The e-war is the work of a cyuberpath - most likely an agent of Nova Ilium

Maxus: You're sure of that, yet the mutant's still alive?

Noctis: It is in the palace network node. Astraea is in position to neutralize anything that sets foot outside of the node.

Maxus: I see. We're still left with no comms...

To me, that is telling Maxus that Astraea is stationed "outside of the node". How do you interpret it?
robnot 9th Feb 2017, 6:46 PM edit delete reply
@megados: i agree with you.!
but ,, a side story here.. Noctis is sentient.. an so she has a paranoia... my mother has arachnophobia, mom loves me, but IF she ever see's my pet spider she WILL kill it, burn down the house an blow up the block to kill it....
so Noctis cant / wont lie, but she said nothing an will do nothing till given a Direct Order.
megados 9th Feb 2017, 7:21 PM edit delete reply

Good point, @robnot, and it illustrates what I was trying to say. I don't know the proper clinical term for "fear of cyberpaths", (if there even is one), but Noctis does seem to have it. Yes, Noctis is sentient; she doesn't often let her feelings show. Maxus knows about it, though, and it is real.

PS: My brother has the same fear. He'd run into the highway to avoid a spider!
robnot 9th Feb 2017, 7:47 PM edit delete reply
mom slammed an locked a door on a kid because he threw a grand daddy long leg at her,, his hand is permanently disfigured.!!
megados 9th Feb 2017, 7:55 PM edit delete reply

I'm sorry to hear that. Poor kid. I guess that's why I don't throw spiders at people.
Sheela 10th Feb 2017, 4:52 AM edit delete reply

@megados > You're welcome. :)

@DLKmusic > NEVAH !!! ... and the loser picks up the turds.
mjkj 7th Feb 2017, 10:06 PM edit delete reply

Uh-oh...

Well, TeeDee is going to be so ... riled up...

I hope Noctis is going to survive it...


PS: I am really glad it is not a friday cliffhanger...

megados 7th Feb 2017, 10:19 PM edit delete reply

I hope so too, @mjkj. I'm not willing to see Noctis thrown away that easily. And yes, it's not Friday !
Visvires 7th Feb 2017, 11:02 PM edit delete reply
Noctis is in for a surprise.

You think that's a human you have by the throat?
Tokyo Rose 7th Feb 2017, 11:23 PM edit delete reply

Dolly's practically indistinguishable from a human thanks to her chassis; Teedee and Ada pass a casual visual inspection via the Mark One Human Eyeball, but other androids can tell the difference after a little observation, and Noctis has sharp enough senses to pick up the telltales on even shorter notice.
mjkj 7th Feb 2017, 11:59 PM edit delete reply

Yeah, but TeeDee has a combat frame - so I doubt Noctis can distinguish that - and with that frame, TeeDee definitely has the advantage...
Tokyo Rose 8th Feb 2017, 4:59 AM edit delete reply

@mjkj

Teedee and Ada are both on a military mission; Noctis is operating under the logical assumption that they're military models.
Gilrandir 8th Feb 2017, 5:26 PM edit delete reply
Is Noctis operating on the assumption that Dolly is a military model?
megados 9th Feb 2017, 6:00 AM edit delete reply

That's a good question, @Gilrandir. There is really no real reason for her to assume that, but also no reason for her not to.
sigpig 8th Feb 2017, 3:26 AM edit delete reply

With Ada carrying Acantha all the way from that tunnel to the hanger without a hint of exertion/fatigue, I'm sure Noctis figured out that they are not human...
Guest 8th Feb 2017, 7:51 AM edit delete reply
Yeah, but (EVIL) CentComm might just run an art day Friday in order to ENJOY our screams of frustration, megados. :-p
Sheela 8th Feb 2017, 10:13 AM edit delete reply

Ripping out TeeDee's throat probably wouldn't slow her down much, though it might silence her.

It *would* piss her off, though.

TeeDee versus Noctis ? Gonna be a close fight, as they are both really fast.

Marcus versus Maxus ? Would also be a close call, as they are both brawn and brains.
Centcomm 8th Feb 2017, 1:53 PM edit delete reply

actually Noctis has monoedged blades under her nails her other hand is about to rip out Teedees Maccs.. that would stop her cold.
Gilrandir 8th Feb 2017, 8:39 PM edit delete reply
She must go through a lot of keyboards. ^_^
megados 9th Feb 2017, 9:05 AM edit delete reply

The cat has claws!
HiFranc 7th Feb 2017, 10:59 PM edit delete reply

At this point, it doesn't matter if Noctis gives the order or not - the one on the scene would simply assume that it was Doctor Silver using her power against her.
Timotheus 7th Feb 2017, 11:11 PM edit delete reply

As I see it, this is going to be a job for Aeneas and Tokyo Rose. I'm sure they've been watching what's been going on and can cut into the different com channels.
Visvires 7th Feb 2017, 11:13 PM edit delete reply
Unless and until Noctis calls off the sniper, there's not going to be any chill. Also, I don't think Maxus is going to stand for her not calling off the sniper.
john 8th Feb 2017, 12:28 AM edit delete reply
I dont believe this is Noctis's doing. I think shes helping Maxis defuse the situation, and Astrea has gone rogue out of hatred for what this cyberpath represents...



Sheela 8th Feb 2017, 10:15 AM edit delete reply

No, Noctis specifically ordered Astrea to set up in that position, and shoot anything exciting the Network Node.
Especially the cyberpath.

A cyberpath is probably the closest thing to the devil for an android.
john 8th Feb 2017, 12:28 AM edit delete reply
I dont believe this is Noctis's doing. I think shes helping Maxis defuse the situation, and Astrea has gone rogue out of hatred for what this cyberpath represents...



Rashala 8th Feb 2017, 12:29 AM edit delete reply

Well Teedee is happy she prolly was looking for a reason to deck pasty
chk 8th Feb 2017, 10:00 AM edit delete reply

Just when I thought things were going so well.
Nef 8th Feb 2017, 1:49 PM edit delete reply

\
Pulling the trigger may be detrimental to your health...
Randonymous 8th Feb 2017, 3:25 PM edit delete reply
I'm extremely curious how the drones would go about intercepting those direct shots. Not only "predict and propel themselves into the line of fire in < 100 ms", but also "dying in such a way that the resulting debris cloud/fire ball doesn't annihilate doc silver".

On top of that it seems mildly inconsistent that the drones didn't spot the sniper beforehand. On the previous page, Astraea's scoped view shows her to be in field of view of doc silver, and the drones are both looking that way already. (The tech page lists 5000m telescopic and 360° visual (and sonar) sensors for those drones...)
Tokyo Rose 8th Feb 2017, 4:00 PM edit delete reply

1: The drones are physically close to Dr. Silver, and very fast. One did detect an incoming threat and intercepted it. Once the first trajectory was traced, all they really have to do is interpose themselves between Silver and the source of the shots.

2: One of the drones is projecting a shield specifically to protect Silver herself from incoming fire and drone shrapnel.

3: Astraea is quite some distance away, and has a camo field.
highly irregular 8th Feb 2017, 7:08 PM edit delete reply
Look out! He's going for his gun!
megados 9th Feb 2017, 6:38 PM edit delete reply

LOL @Sheela.
Dragonrider 8th Feb 2017, 7:27 PM edit delete reply

DC dropped a notch we are 24 behind 8th, 211 behind 7th GET OUT AND VOTE It takes 1 minute to vote if you register as a Top Web member it takes 1 minute to sign in from the non member vote page and 1 minute to vote for DC as a Top Web member 3 whole minutes to show appreciation for a labor of love these Ladies present three times a week, it takes them hours to prepare each page. Now people won't take 3 minutes to show appreciation? Lets GO VOTE.
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