So, for Ada, with her biological add-ons and more nuanced physical senses, the hot shower can be a pleasant and rewarding experience in its own right, correct? While for Noctis, with her all-plastic and all-business sensor suite, it's the equivalent of going through a car wash (inside the car -- aware of what's going on, but somewhat removed from it) to get rid of the grime, dirt and dust?
The splash effects are nice. It might have been an interesting (though trivial) detail to show some steam clouds around Ada, to show she's using warm water (because it matters), while Noctis is just using cold because it's more efficient to not bother adjusting the temperature (and it doesn't really matter to her).
I could be wrong, but I thought that they both had similar skin and sensation. Ada has add-ons beyond that, but I thought their skin was similar, with similar tactile acuity.
And Noctis has bio plast skin I think, just like TeeDee, while Ada's skin is fully organic. It also have a lot more nerve endings than what Noctis has.
Remember when Dolly got her upgrade ? She also had to combat a flood of new chemical data from her new body.
That said, I do think that Noctis is "tactile enough" to enjoy things like a nice bath, it's just not quite on the same level.
The creatrices have never quantified the relative experiences. I certainly hope it is at least worth whatever the corresponding difference in cost for the biologics, else why bother?
Sheela, I am somewhat confused, as I thought Dolly had higher-end body and options than either TeeDee or Ada, and that Ada had more optional add-ons, but TeeDee had the better frame. I also don't know how much a person could mix-and-match bodies with skin types, etc. We need to be able to look at a catalog. Also, they are all New Troy androids, and Noctis isn't. Are there additional differences there too?
Most all of the New Troy Andriods follow a " similar " build internally. Dolly has without a doubt the most " advanced " body. But Teedee and Ada have more durable ones. And Ada has a bio package that TD doesnt. IE Ada can have sex and enjoy it. TD cant and wouldnt enjoy it anyway. But she does have surface detail so she looks like she has nipples and a genital area. Noctis is a barbie doll . period .. i know they dont show up well but she also has seams. i should have made them more significant.
Leaving aside sex (which everyone on the InterNet seems to be obsessed with -- go figure! ^_^), what other activities are Dolly and Ada equipped to enjoy that leave TeeDee and Noctis unmoved? Chocolate creme eggs? Hot tub soaks? Scented candles and diaphanous silk scarves? Escher drawings? Louis Armstrong and New Orleans Jazz?
Thanks, @Centcomm. That clears some stuff up for me. So Noctis' different skin has different sensation qualities too?
Yep, @mjkj, once I know to look, (I am presently on a tablet, so I magnify it), there they are! Nice detail @Centcomm! I don't necessarily think you should have done anything differently, once I see them they look "right".
Had you chosen, you might have had the blood gravitate to the seams slightly, as fluids will tend to collect in small depressions and crevices -- giving you an excuse to use the red (or brown, if the blood is old enough) coloration to accentuate the seams even more. But it might have been a lot of extra work for not much payoff, and I think what you have here is just fine.
Given Noctis' late boss Decimus's personality, I'm surprised he didn't make sure all the Cassian's were anatomically complete. It just seems like something a "megalomaniacal, delusional sadist" dictator would do.
Just my opinions, @Ictuan, but I imagine there were at least two factors discouraging that.
1) Decimus was presented as being at least reasonably politically astute before his final descent into madness and politically astute people aren't generally going to waste too much time and effort brutalizing and terrorizing the one class of people of whose loyalty they are assured when they could be terrorizing and brutalizing other people to ensure they are more loyal. (Yes, I know, but that's often the way these people think. ^_^)
2) Even the ruler of a powerful and populous city-state has to face the dilemma of Guns or Lube. (Technically, "Guns or Butter", but we know where you were going with this. ^_^) If you're building tanks and warbots as fast as you can, there's less money left over for expensive bio-upgrade kits. Especially since you won't even be using them yourself owing to your own sadistic tendencies and the unfortunate built-in pain-control circuitry of the Cassian MACCS. Better to splurge on more conventional slaves and a finer quality of vintage for the dining table.
Of course, I may be completely mistaken. Budget, in particular, is easy to overlook in a science fictional setting, since it is harder to know what is cheap and easy with advanced technology and what is not.
@Ictuan most (all?) of the Cassians were created before Prince Headcase grabbed the throne. Since the origin of the Cassians is a mystery, we don't know whether he even *could* furnish them with new bodies if he wanted.
Oh absolutely warm water, the effectiveness of soaps to remove organic materials is highly temperature sensitive. Most car washes run at least some warm water cycles to initially clean the vehicle.
(I used to have to wash out a lot of organic chemistry glassware, heat, agitation, solvents, and physical pressure.)
While Dolly is the most advanced organic android right now, doesn't mean that she would be that far ahead in *all* areas.
For example, we know she has a skeleton that stand up do fairly close inspection, and internal organs that at least "look" human too.
But with regular 4E androids, the skin could easily be just as complex as the one Dolly has, but the frame be something simple, like a titanium alloy frame - After all, if the only thing with high density feedback is the skin, then the synthbrain that receives the data doesn't have to be nearly as complex as the synth brain that has to handle both the skin, the "skeleton with bone marrow functions" and internal organs all at the same time.
By limitíng the number of high density feedbacks, you lover the requirements quite drastically too.
As for the even simpler bio-plast skin, it could still have a good deal of feed back, but just less than the human equivalent skins.
And thus, a bath might feel quite nice for a regular "low feedback" android too - It becomes a balance between what you "feel" as pleasant, and what you "perceive" as pleasant.
Just because TeeDee don't have 400 pressure sensors per square inch of skin, doesn't mean that her meagre, lets say, 40 sensor per square inch don't feel nice when submerged in a nice hot tub. :)
There may be fewer sensors, but they still sense the same favorable input, so she may still come to the same conclusion "this is nice".
I would assume the "skeleton with bone marrow functions" would be controlled by the M.A.C.C.S. (equivalent of spine), rather than needing input from the "higher brain"...
edit: @antrik. I can only guess that the MACCS contains autonomic body function control, and a certain amount of motor-memory equivalent to the human counterpart, and a synthbrain itself is tailored to the body it's paired with. It would contain an "unwritten area" where the persona of its inhabitant will be placed. That's basically what I gather from available information.
As to your point about enjoying things with decreased sensitivity -- your point is well taken. To take things to ridiculous extremes, you could (if you chose) just build one single pleasure nerve and get just as intense a pleasurable sensation from stimulating that one nerve as the model 5 prototype gets from stimulating its millions of nerves. ... However that type of design has other implications and may not be the best choice for other reasons. ^_^
There is, however, in my opinion, a qualitative difference between "That feels ... okay." and "Ah! This is wonderful. I really needed this." You'll note I wasn't talking about the differences between the model 5 and the model 4, but the differences between the model 4 and the model 3. And I didn't say there was anything a model 3 couldn't appreciate just as much as a model 4. I was asking if there was anything a model 3 couldn't appreciate as much as a model 4, relevant to the question of "So why bother spending extra for a model 4 upgrade, anyway?"
Given the general superiority of metal over flesh, it is arguable we should be calling it a "model 4 downgrade" anyway. It would be a "model 1 upgrade". ^_^
You might well be right, @mjkj. Certainly there could be limited production special designs with practically any specialized capability the creatrices wanted. I don't recall any canon reason for that to be the case, though. Going to the tech pages again, we see that even a 3E is mostly metal, with only a few selected "touch pads" (though, of course, that says nothing about the sensitivity of sight, hearing, smell, taste, or even touch inherent in that model's equipment, even including the metal -- which may well be special nano-metal that is strong, flexible, yielding, sensitive and warm to the touch. ^_^). While the 4B is given a full flesh covering, implying a greater range of sensation.
That suggests an interesting professional "niche" for androids in New Troy. A collective or club of model 3 androids could pool their resources to hire a single model 4 companion android as their 'taster'. They expose the taster to fine food, sensual experiences, pleasant circumstances, then have the companion format those memories for download and all share what none of them could individually afford. ^_^
@antrik :
The M.A.C.C.S. is what the inhibitor controls, when it needs to do it's work. It can do stuff like turn off pain, which Dolly *could NOT*, so I don't think she has one.
@Gilrandir :
When TeeDee was reloaded in the Sprite body, she mentioned that she tasted food "more" and she had to deal with stuff like .. freezing her itty bitty titties off, which annoyed her a great deal.
Also, we haven't seen any touch-addicted androids yet, but the creatrixes claim they exist. So that could be a down side as well.
So I guess taste and touch are areas where you get quantative differences.
Which only means, @Sheela, that her Sprite/Striker chassis had upgraded sensitivity from her previous model 3 chassis. We still don't have definitive data about whether there are any model 3's that have more sensitivity than selected model 4's.
For what it's worth, I do think Dolly has a MACCS (though I admit I have no canon source -- it's just an impression). There are lots of real-world tech reasons why I think it likely, even though she did lack complete pain control, but it's even less likely to be of general interest than my normal meaningless and aimless wandering about irrelevant and distracting trivia. ^_^
That makes no sense Antrik ... why have a crippled M.A.C.C.S. ?
I think the reason why she cannot turn off her pain, is because she doesn't have a programmable M.A.C.C.S., instead she has something more akin to a true nervous system, that is integrated so tightly between her brain & body, that it cannot be manipulated with.
Which would also mean that an inhibitor would do nothing against her. :)
The M.A.C.C.S. *is* what provides the integration between the body and the brain. That was Kotko's big breakthrough in creating Galina. (Well, at least one of the breakthroughs...)
I wouldn't say that a more autonomous M.A.C.C.S. that can't be consciously programmed, is "crippling" any more than the other features of this body, that make her more human-like at the price of inconvenience...
Noctis had gotten considerably more blood on her than I would have imagined. I was hoping to hear more of Ada's anecdote. CentComm's reaction, etc., but it looks like Noctis did get Ada feeling better!
Re alt text: I try to be nice! :)
LOL Snow Girl
Nice FX and dialog once again! Kudos! Lighthearted upbeat feeling on this page! :)
That was in response to the puns, not to Rosie's reaction. (Notice the timestamp.) Not my fault your comment section doesn't properly show threading ;-)
Ironically, it turns out that the shower facilities are, in fact, identical (minus colour choices) to those Lynn used at the Black Palace at a later date :-)
(See "The Worst Option", presently at http://datachasers.thecomicseries.com/comics/1152 )
@mjkj she sliced up a bunch of blue shits, remember? She has had this blood stain on her cheek ever since -- and apparently a lot more blood in other places...
They had it mostly stopped, yes, but Noctis still had blood on her from earlier starting here, when she had to get through Canoi's men. This is the first chance she had for a shower since then.
Nonono, you're all wrong. It should be Noctis Nivis. (Assuming 'Noctis' has a meaning related to 'nocturne' or night, that would make her full name 'Night Snow', which I think would be a very appropriate name for her.)
As for Illium's threat level, that's determined pretty much exclusively by Cent-Comm; so Ada's behaviour probably will have little effect on the evaluation. Commie's behaviour appears to prove her to be exactly as dangerous as Noctis expected her to be...
It is interesting. :) TeeDee's guns can't really be Chekhov's guns because we know she has guns, and uses them. :D For guns found in TeeDee's locker to be Chekhov's guns, they would have to have been planted there unbeknownst to TeeDee.
I'm always nice. Unusual sometimes, but nice. And it sounds like there would be plenty of story for the artist to play with - that recounting did cut off with a "So then..." and a break of a few minutes. What more could there have been? And surely Cent must have found them out...
Ada: ...and she decided that turnabout was fair play, and got quite creative. One day it was all tails and cutie marks - I was Twilight Sparkle, complete with unihorn and purple hair, Teedee was Rainbow Dash complete with wings - the next, we were all Steven Universe characters - Cent actually joined in as Yellow Diamond, and I think Teedee really got into roleplaying Jasper. Sweary Jasper, anyway...
Noctis does look like a (blood-smeared) Barbie doll. Still, it should make her easy to clothe.
Cute story, Ada, but I'm afraid you just turned Cent's doll in the S&R break room into Chekhov's gun. Or rather, Noctis' gun.
Ada thinks she's making a friend, but she's actually leaking sensitive, if not classified intel to a representative of an enemy state. Her trusting nature makes her great for S&R, but it kinda makes her suck at being a diplomat.
Ada is gonna feel more rotten than a murderturd turd, if Noctis and/or Aeneas end up using that doll against New Troy.
Cent might consider this story an act of treason, and not just 'cause of the party hat and makeup.
Eh? You lost me. Talking about dressing up a CentComm doll is sensitive information? Other than that, I think the whole world knows she is used to being called a villain. The knowledge that she keeps a doll in the S&R break room doesn't seem like something that would be classified. I think anything they talk about is pretty much guaranteed to be overheard by CentComm, anyway.
I have to agree with Megados - the information is not sensitive. She's sayi a lot but not giving way much. Trust me, if you want to keep secrets and not seem rude, you just talk about other things. Similarly, if you want to make a connection without revealing secrets, talk about the fun things in your life.
Mentioning that Cent-Comm has a doll stored in the S&R break room is like mentioning that there's an intercom panel in the S&R break room. The average city A.I.S. keeps a number of dolls stowed in various places, since one never knows when one will need to have a "physical" presence in one location or another. There's really no way to use one of Cent's dolls against New Troy in any way, since all they are is basically a robot body with a sel-cast receiver unit built in. They're not combat models and contain no vital data or exploitable technology.
- since she knew they decorated her doll
- she tried to act as if she did not
- she tried to be so oblivious that everybody was hard pressed not to laugh
- (and that is what she tried to achieve - for the others to not be able to keep a straight face...)
I cannot speak for anyone or on behalf of anyone, @Haegan2005. And I have no idea if this applies to you or not, but non-Patreon subscribers wishing to be extra nice may want to consider becoming Patreon subscribers. If you are already a Patreon subscriber, please understand that no slight or offense is intended -- the creators have that list, not I.
I'd comment but seems I was beat to the punch also I promised teedee to lay off her lack of experience poo poking of stuff in exchange for not doing time what she had planned to do to decimus in a previous q&a
Oh oops, I thought we were only supposed to be nice to the creators?... ;-)
On a more serious note, I hope this didn't come across as offensive? It was intended as a friendly jab -- in fact, offering an excuse for the garbled comment ;-)
(Can you figure out what he was trying to say? I sure can't...)
[going to need her back scrubbed]
The splash effects are nice. It might have been an interesting (though trivial) detail to show some steam clouds around Ada, to show she's using warm water (because it matters), while Noctis is just using cold because it's more efficient to not bother adjusting the temperature (and it doesn't really matter to her).
And Noctis has bio plast skin I think, just like TeeDee, while Ada's skin is fully organic. It also have a lot more nerve endings than what Noctis has.
Remember when Dolly got her upgrade ? She also had to combat a flood of new chemical data from her new body.
That said, I do think that Noctis is "tactile enough" to enjoy things like a nice bath, it's just not quite on the same level.
...in the second to last panel they can be seen also - but one needs to look for them...
Yep, @mjkj, once I know to look, (I am presently on a tablet, so I magnify it), there they are! Nice detail @Centcomm! I don't necessarily think you should have done anything differently, once I see them they look "right".
1) Decimus was presented as being at least reasonably politically astute before his final descent into madness and politically astute people aren't generally going to waste too much time and effort brutalizing and terrorizing the one class of people of whose loyalty they are assured when they could be terrorizing and brutalizing other people to ensure they are more loyal. (Yes, I know, but that's often the way these people think. ^_^)
2) Even the ruler of a powerful and populous city-state has to face the dilemma of Guns or Lube. (Technically, "Guns or Butter", but we know where you were going with this. ^_^) If you're building tanks and warbots as fast as you can, there's less money left over for expensive bio-upgrade kits. Especially since you won't even be using them yourself owing to your own sadistic tendencies and the unfortunate built-in pain-control circuitry of the Cassian MACCS. Better to splurge on more conventional slaves and a finer quality of vintage for the dining table.
Of course, I may be completely mistaken. Budget, in particular, is easy to overlook in a science fictional setting, since it is harder to know what is cheap and easy with advanced technology and what is not.
Very good points.
I agree though that some steam would be a nice touch :-)
(I used to have to wash out a lot of organic chemistry glassware, heat, agitation, solvents, and physical pressure.)
For example, we know she has a skeleton that stand up do fairly close inspection, and internal organs that at least "look" human too.
But with regular 4E androids, the skin could easily be just as complex as the one Dolly has, but the frame be something simple, like a titanium alloy frame - After all, if the only thing with high density feedback is the skin, then the synthbrain that receives the data doesn't have to be nearly as complex as the synth brain that has to handle both the skin, the "skeleton with bone marrow functions" and internal organs all at the same time.
By limitíng the number of high density feedbacks, you lover the requirements quite drastically too.
As for the even simpler bio-plast skin, it could still have a good deal of feed back, but just less than the human equivalent skins.
And thus, a bath might feel quite nice for a regular "low feedback" android too - It becomes a balance between what you "feel" as pleasant, and what you "perceive" as pleasant.
Just because TeeDee don't have 400 pressure sensors per square inch of skin, doesn't mean that her meagre, lets say, 40 sensor per square inch don't feel nice when submerged in a nice hot tub. :)
There may be fewer sensors, but they still sense the same favorable input, so she may still come to the same conclusion "this is nice".
Also, TeeDee still like hugs from Ada!
edit: @antrik. I can only guess that the MACCS contains autonomic body function control, and a certain amount of motor-memory equivalent to the human counterpart, and a synthbrain itself is tailored to the body it's paired with. It would contain an "unwritten area" where the persona of its inhabitant will be placed. That's basically what I gather from available information.
As to your point about enjoying things with decreased sensitivity -- your point is well taken. To take things to ridiculous extremes, you could (if you chose) just build one single pleasure nerve and get just as intense a pleasurable sensation from stimulating that one nerve as the model 5 prototype gets from stimulating its millions of nerves. ... However that type of design has other implications and may not be the best choice for other reasons. ^_^
There is, however, in my opinion, a qualitative difference between "That feels ... okay." and "Ah! This is wonderful. I really needed this." You'll note I wasn't talking about the differences between the model 5 and the model 4, but the differences between the model 4 and the model 3. And I didn't say there was anything a model 3 couldn't appreciate just as much as a model 4. I was asking if there was anything a model 3 couldn't appreciate as much as a model 4, relevant to the question of "So why bother spending extra for a model 4 upgrade, anyway?"
Given the general superiority of metal over flesh, it is arguable we should be calling it a "model 4 downgrade" anyway. It would be a "model 1 upgrade". ^_^
That suggests an interesting professional "niche" for androids in New Troy. A collective or club of model 3 androids could pool their resources to hire a single model 4 companion android as their 'taster'. They expose the taster to fine food, sensual experiences, pleasant circumstances, then have the companion format those memories for download and all share what none of them could individually afford. ^_^
The M.A.C.C.S. is what the inhibitor controls, when it needs to do it's work. It can do stuff like turn off pain, which Dolly *could NOT*, so I don't think she has one.
@Gilrandir :
When TeeDee was reloaded in the Sprite body, she mentioned that she tasted food "more" and she had to deal with stuff like .. freezing her itty bitty titties off, which annoyed her a great deal.
Also, we haven't seen any touch-addicted androids yet, but the creatrixes claim they exist. So that could be a down side as well.
So I guess taste and touch are areas where you get quantative differences.
For what it's worth, I do think Dolly has a MACCS (though I admit I have no canon source -- it's just an impression). There are lots of real-world tech reasons why I think it likely, even though she did lack complete pain control, but it's even less likely to be of general interest than my normal meaningless and aimless wandering about irrelevant and distracting trivia. ^_^
I say, she just wanted her to suffer like "real" humans ;-)
I think the reason why she cannot turn off her pain, is because she doesn't have a programmable M.A.C.C.S., instead she has something more akin to a true nervous system, that is integrated so tightly between her brain & body, that it cannot be manipulated with.
Which would also mean that an inhibitor would do nothing against her. :)
I wouldn't say that a more autonomous M.A.C.C.S. that can't be consciously programmed, is "crippling" any more than the other features of this body, that make her more human-like at the price of inconvenience...
Re alt text: I try to be nice! :)
LOL Snow Girl
Nice FX and dialog once again! Kudos! Lighthearted upbeat feeling on this page! :)
Well .. ok .. Naughty & Nice. >_<
She just that kind of girl.
That said, comparing this shower, with the one Lynn got when she arrived in Nova Roma ... yeah, there's a significant difference!
(See "The Worst Option", presently at http://datachasers.thecomicseries.com/comics/1152 )
*lol* Snow Girl... so fitting... (edit: new name for Noctis... - ...hmmm, would that be Puella Nivis?)
@alt text: yes, please...?
Edit: What I wonder though is how was Ada able to remove her armor faster than Noctis her clothes?
Also how endearing is it that Ada is already trying on new nicknames for Noctis ? :D
And Ada is a master at undressing ! XD
Alas, poor Quintus. He'll never get to hear this nickname, and even if he did, he'll never get the chance to use the dialogue he would yearn for ...
.... "That Snowlady, that's my wife!" ^_^
Actually Snowlady might be a better term, since she's not all that girly.
and most of it is Acantha's but more belonged to her targets.
Virgin Snow ?
.... nnnnoooooooooooo.
Also I think with the way Ada is treating her, Noctis is going to going to seriously re-evaluate Nova Illium's threat index.
Ada is treating her like a new found friend, who truly cares both about her patients and everyone else.
As for the story, Ada was telling, can we get it finished and as a Vote Incentive?
And Ada *will* be your friend!
Oh, and yes please on the vote incentive 'n' stuff.
Ehm, I'm referring to the Cent doll of course!
You are a bit due for some new vote bait.
I'm being Really really nice!!! Honest I am...
Uhm, which story are we talking about? playing dress-up with one of Cent-Comm's dolls, or Noctis rolling around in a slaughter house?
But I guess that depends on nobody egging Rose and Cent on... ;)
Even Noctis would be disturbed by that.
Ada: ...and she decided that turnabout was fair play, and got quite creative. One day it was all tails and cutie marks - I was Twilight Sparkle, complete with unihorn and purple hair, Teedee was Rainbow Dash complete with wings - the next, we were all Steven Universe characters - Cent actually joined in as Yellow Diamond, and I think Teedee really got into roleplaying Jasper. Sweary Jasper, anyway...
Noctis does look like a (blood-smeared) Barbie doll. Still, it should make her easy to clothe.
Noctis: Tennis outfit... no. Beach outfit... no. Business outfit... maybe. Ski outfit... practical. ......
Ada: That's a cheerleader outfit... I'd guess that's a "no"... and I don't know what that vinyl punk outfit is doing there... or this ninja outfit-
Noctis: Yes. *takes costume* These throwing stars might be plastic, but in my hands...
Ada: o_O
>:=)>
* "sober up" is a phrase that failed to occur to me until after I hit "post". Go me. In fact, me, go to fucking sleep, it's five in the morning.
I couldn't help but read the "UN" like when the guy in Idiocracy gets to see the "time-masheen" in walmart. :D
See Jane Gag...
Gag, Jane! Gag!
Opponent: *boob honk*
Noctis: *stare*
Opponent: *double boob honk*
(horrible wet cracking noises)
Noctis (over screams): Leave the arms you have lost. They are mine now.
Noctis: "Stop doing that."
... they may loose their nipples though.
(Aeneas paints pictures with pixels, Noctis paints pictures with blood ... Each of us finds ways to express ourselves. ^_^)
(I'm also 'New Troy Access Theta Blue' if you want to illustrate a few days in the shower)
Ada thinks she's making a friend, but she's actually leaking sensitive, if not classified intel to a representative of an enemy state. Her trusting nature makes her great for S&R, but it kinda makes her suck at being a diplomat.
Ada is gonna feel more rotten than a murderturd turd, if Noctis and/or Aeneas end up using that doll against New Troy.
Cent might consider this story an act of treason, and not just 'cause of the party hat and makeup.
I guess that was Cent's version of having fun:
- since she knew they decorated her doll
- she tried to act as if she did not
- she tried to be so oblivious that everybody was hard pressed not to laugh
- (and that is what she tried to achieve - for the others to not be able to keep a straight face...)
What do I need to do to get that rendered and written out? Even a still shot of what centcomm's doll looked like would be well worth something!
On a more serious note, I hope this didn't come across as offensive? It was intended as a friendly jab -- in fact, offering an excuse for the garbled comment ;-)
(Can you figure out what he was trying to say? I sure can't...)
I sense something developing...