Comic 1487 - Outside The Bubble

9th May 2017, 9:00 PM
Outside The Bubble
Average Rating: 5 (24 votes)
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Mark_L_A 9th May 2017, 9:01 PM edit delete reply

Acantha is trying to repair some bridges and deal with some of her own hurt at the same time
The Old Scribe 9th May 2017, 9:09 PM edit delete reply

Ooops, it's full name time ... Mom's cheesed off. Still, she's not your 'little girl' anymore, Calliope. She's been through the Valley of Death and come out the other side and the sooner you realize that, the better off your relationship will be.

Noctis is just watching over there. I wonder what she thinks of all this Human emotion?
Haegan2005 9th May 2017, 10:08 PM edit delete reply

Anger and contention are dangerous, but unlikely to result in violence from these two. The likely sources of tension and conflict are probably well understood by Noctis and what she sees is a healthy venting and an assertion of independence by Lynn. And Noctis sees Callie as an protective mother who does not see how her baby girl has changed.

I think that Noctis thinks that there is nothing to worry about here except the stress the argument is inflicting on Acantha. I think at this point Acantha is the only thing that she will act upon and that would be to ask Cally and Lynn to settle this outside.

Apologies if i took this too literal.
Ebonbolt 9th May 2017, 11:37 PM edit delete reply

No quibble with your assessment, although she might prefer to let Florence do the actual ousting, for now (she can be subtle, after all). I think @The Old Scribe was asking more about what Noctis thinks about the very human interaction of a mother/daughter argument, as an objective observer rather than as a threat assessment. On the other hand, I think she's also looking to Acantha's reactions & tone to judge how to shape her own interactions with Calliope (if any). The only time we see her, she seems to be looking directly at Acantha.
antrik 9th May 2017, 11:09 PM edit delete reply
@The Old Scribe well, as far as I can tell, Noctis does have a bit of a concerned look... Although I have no idea what she is thinking of this really, she must be registering at least that this is an uncomfortable situation.
Tokyo Rose 10th May 2017, 12:01 AM edit delete reply

Noctis simply wants this argument to Go Away, because it's upsetting Acantha. :D
Sheela 10th May 2017, 5:11 AM edit delete reply

At the same time, Noctis would also want Acantha to be as knowledgeable about what has happened as possible, as it would make her better prepared for the politics that'll eventually happen down the road.

At some point, Acantha will hear something that will upset her, she cannot stop that from happening.
megados 10th May 2017, 8:09 AM edit delete reply

Yes, Acantha will eventually hear lots of things that will upset her, but she won't always be recovering from open heart surgery. Noctis seems to realize that this timing would be counterproductive to her recovery.
Morituri 10th May 2017, 7:40 PM edit delete reply
Noctis is probably thinking,

"Oh. They have tension but they are communicating about it while remaining civil. Further, they have a normative expectation that psychological professional help is sometimes warranted. This is behavior typical of sane people so I will downrate the probability of conflict arising from irrational responses."
Sheela 10th May 2017, 10:55 PM edit delete reply

"Oh, they have cat videos on their infonet!"

*Noctis wasn't heard from for several days after that thought went through her head.
antrik 11th May 2017, 4:15 AM edit delete reply
Ah, yes... Important bit of intelligence there ;-)
Sheela 11th May 2017, 2:52 PM edit delete reply

Can't underestimate cat videos !
Very important data for Noctis to collect.

Must .. collect .. them .. all !!! >_<
megados 9th May 2017, 9:15 PM edit delete reply

Re: alt text, Yep, Acantha dropped her player.

I'm glad Lynn is being reasonable, thanks to Acantha. It is helping to diffuse the situation. Acantha looks quite relieved. Both of them make some very mature points! Events have forced them both to grow a little, it seems.

Calli still hasn't said "Hi" to Noctis!
Oni-Neko 9th May 2017, 10:02 PM edit delete reply
And once again Acantha shows her smarts.

And Lynn listens to her. That might make Callie want to get her away from Acantha even more. Maybe. Maybe not if the suggestions are always reasonable...

As for Callie ignoring Noctis, well Noctis is a bodyguard and so I'd kinda expect that from someone somebody in high society. I would only expect Callie to directly address the bodyguard if there was a security issue that needed an answer or if Noctis introduction had included a phrase such as 'saved my life'

And @Megados if you were merely having fun with your last statement, feel free to ignore what I just said.
antrik 9th May 2017, 11:37 PM edit delete reply
I'd actually assume Calliope rather to be grateful that Acantha talks some sense into Lynn...
megados 10th May 2017, 6:47 AM edit delete reply

@Oni-Neko, yes my comment about Noctis was tongue-in-cheek, but your response is valid. I would not expect Calli to get into a conversation with Noctis, but upon being introduced, one might expect her to repeat her name out of politeness, rather than just "Mmm-hmm". The reason I say that, is because the culture in New Troy is portrayed as one of equality and acceptance between androids and humans, and this is a member of the entourage of a visiting dignitary. On the other hand, Calli is pretty emotionally shaken, and any veneer of politeness may have fallen by the wayside.

I don't really think Calli wants to get Lynn away from Acantha specifically, but she does want to make sure Lynn is okay, and maybe some mother-daughter time together to talk, and make some amends. It doesn't seem as though Calli dislikes Acantha.
antrik 10th May 2017, 8:53 AM edit delete reply
I wouldn't expect Calliope to dislike Acantha as a person -- that would be some serious prejudice, considering that they just met for the first time a minute ago. She does seem to be sceptical though of what kind of influence Acantha could be on Lynn. Lynn definitely has a point that Calliope has been only "barely civil" to Acantha: she was like, "yeah hi, bye -- Lynn, let's get you out of here"... Not exactly a nice way to treat anyone.
antrik 9th May 2017, 11:32 PM edit delete reply
@megados Acantha has been rather mature for her age in most regards (except in taunting her psycho brother) ever since we first met her. She has been exposed to this kind of "growing events" for years... It's a well-known fact that under extreme circumstances, teenagers even younger than her can behave like adults.

Lynn on the other hand -- judging by her current behaviour -- only *thinks* she has grown; but hasn't really internalised the lessons yet...

Calliope doesn't understand the importance of Acantha's role in the recent events; for once Lynn is actually genuinely justified in asserting herself -- but the *way* she does it, is very self-centred and immature: even disregarding Actantha's actual feelings in the present situation...
megados 10th May 2017, 7:05 AM edit delete reply

@antrik, Lynn and Acantha come from two very different backgrounds. Acantha has had to grow up much more quickly in her environment. It makes sense that she could give some pretty good advice. Lynn has been taking advice from her since they first met, if reluctantly at first, so it's not surprising she does now.

Lynn, too, has grown some, although possibly not as much, or in the same areas she thinks she has. For instance, she seems to have a little better handle on when to take advice. She has some growing to do in that area!

You are right; Calliope doesn't quite appreciate how close Lynn and Acantha have become in this relatively short time.
sigpig 11th May 2017, 9:03 AM edit delete reply

Frankly, Lynne is acting out. She has seen more violent death, destruction, slavery, attempted incestual rape, attempted murder of her new BFF, finding out that her boy-toy is now a cyborg, the revenge-assassination of a head-of-state, suffered physical abuses, had some ova harvested, been shot down and abducted, and she found out that her nanny isn't as indestructible as she previously thought.

She's in the denial stage right now, very soon she will be suffering "survivor guilt". I would say that a social worker/therapist/psychiatrist is needed at this point. At the very least she will probably need a sedative to get to sleep, and REMAIN asleep overnight for the next week or two. She needs to decompress. Being with Acantha and Dolly will help immensely, but she DOES need professional care.
Sheela 11th May 2017, 12:24 PM edit delete reply

Yeah, she does need to decompress.

Luckily, the place where they harvested the OVA, caught on fire SO HARD, that it fell out of continuity !
Some say they saw an Asian agent sneak around in the area, just before it caught fire, but surely that has nothing to do with it. :D
megados 11th May 2017, 5:31 PM edit delete reply

I agree that Lynn is acting out a bit, and she does need to decompress. The 'how' might be tricky, though. A lot can be said for professional counseling, but forcing her into it without her acquiescence might be counterproductive. The professional would be quick to point out that she would be better off being more gently guided into it. I also think that Dolly and/or Acantha have roles to play in this, and let's not forget that Acantha has need of some decompression of her own as well, even though her comportment is better than Lynn's right now.

I should add, that I am in no way a mental health authority, so my opinion should be taken with a grain of salt.
velvetsanity 11th May 2017, 9:21 PM edit delete reply

Fully decompressing takes quite a bit of time. For example, it takes an average of five years for a soldier to fully come back from a one-year deployment in a combat zone. That's not counting PTSD issues, btw. That's lifelong.
megados 11th May 2017, 9:37 PM edit delete reply

Thanks @velvetsanity, that is good to know.
antrik 9th May 2017, 11:35 PM edit delete reply
@megados well, Lynn herself told Calliope that Roman androids are scary... ;-) (See "Letter Home", presently at )
Haegan2005 9th May 2017, 9:57 PM edit delete reply

Lynn is at the age that most children are asserting their independence of their parents in some way or another. Of course they don't have the experience yet in the world to understand the WHY of many of their parents choices.

Alas, that comes with time and experience. Good and bad unfortunately.

Lynn is young enough to not be beaten down and exhausted by the crap life throws at us and she has a burning wish to do what is right. At least for those she cares for.

I think it is a good start, don't you?

Perhaps she still wants to be a starship pilot, perhaps she will make a different choice. It might be hard to take her boyfriend with her in a beginning pilots career. He might not fit inside the duffel bag or suitcase after all!
Haegan2005 9th May 2017, 10:00 PM edit delete reply

dupe post, oops!
antrik 9th May 2017, 10:00 PM edit delete reply
So as they were arguing, and Florence the ninja-nurse has been conveniently keeping out of sight, she still managed to slip Acantha that extra pillow... Impressive! ;-)
Haegan2005 9th May 2017, 10:11 PM edit delete reply

Florence may be the other reason the argument stops or goes elsewhere. "Stop stressing the patient!"
Centcomm 9th May 2017, 11:56 PM edit delete reply

Nurses ARE ninjas... seriously. Except when taking blood .. then they are vampires.
All the Pickles 10th May 2017, 12:13 AM edit delete reply

Ahh, but the two aren't mutually exclusive! They could be vampire ninjas!
velvetsanity 10th May 2017, 4:08 AM edit delete reply

Or ninja vampires!
Sheela 11th May 2017, 2:54 PM edit delete reply

.. wait ?

Hospitals are vampire nests ?
It all makes so much sense now !!
Dragonrider 9th May 2017, 10:26 PM edit delete reply

Lynn is determined to mark her territory Acantha is her sister in arms, she relates more than Caliope realizes to being her own boss than to letting her mother make decisions for her. Caliope is going to need a few visits to the mental health pro to accept that fact. Mommy doesn't know her child cold cocked Acanthas brother to stop rape, does not know what her daughter has done to make the best of a bad situation. Lynn needs to tell mom how she and Acantha bonded, how she thought she might loose her BFF. Caliope needs to understand this quit hating Acantha and Noctis.
HiFranc 9th May 2017, 10:39 PM edit delete reply

I'm hoping that the counsellor comes out, says that they have debriefed Lynn and orders her to let Lynn spend more time with Acantha.
guest1 10th May 2017, 8:31 AM edit delete reply
ore better yet.. Counselor:ok Mrs. Taylor could you please come over and lay on the couch,, and Mz. Taylor thank you for the conversation,, i think Mz. Livis would like your company now..!
TheSkulker 9th May 2017, 11:08 PM edit delete reply

@Dragonrider: Exactly! Calli has no idea of who her daughter truly is now. As far as Calli is concerned, Lynn is still the naive, impetuous, rose-colored-glasses-wearing teenager that just turned eighteen and flew off to see her boyfriend. She may still be impetuous but she sure as hell is not so naive or "color blinded" as when she left. It is going to take some time (and maybe some counseling herself), for Calli to get that.

Lynn's calling her mother out should give Calli a big hint that her child has drastically changed but I suspect that it is now Calli who is wearing the blinders to reality. Calli needs to wake up and wake up fast to the new reality before she causes irreparable damage to their relationship.

In addition to Lynn's new perspective on life, her bonding with Acantha is far, far deeper than Calliope realizes. If push came to shove and Calli forced Lynn to choose between her and Acantha, I wouldn't bet my life that Calli would be happy with Lynn's choice.
Just_IDD 10th May 2017, 6:16 AM edit delete reply
@TheSkulker I worry that Calliope might be thinking its Stockholm Syndrome. I'm sure it's an effect they're well aware of. What they don't understand is that Acantha was under the same threat for most of her life and acted to protect Lynn. What I don't know is where is Dolly in all of this. She can provide so of the missing information that Calliope needs before making assumptions.
SeanR 10th May 2017, 6:38 AM edit delete reply
Badly injured, and now needing actual medical treatment, rather than thirty minutes in the body bay.
antrik 10th May 2017, 9:09 AM edit delete reply
@Just_IDD since I suggested this myself at some point, I have no choice but to agree... ;-) However, I'm not sure Dolly is really necessary for this. She only saw them together the last hour or so in Roma. While she can testify that they were fleeing together, there is no reason for Calliope to distrust Lynn when she tells her the same. And when Lynn tells her the whole story, that *should* be enough to dispel her concerns...
Kitty 10th May 2017, 6:06 PM edit delete reply
Let's keep in mind that yes, Calli HASN'T learned everything that happened to Lynn in New Rome, so to her eyes, all she sees is Lynn being stubborn AGAIN.

If Lynn truly has had her eyes opened, then she needs to take a look at her mom and realize that Calli first needs to assure herself that her daughter is all right, to come to terms with the fact that relations with New Rome are now going to have to move forward, and to stop feeling guilty that she agreed to let Lynn go out on her own in the first place. Give Calli a break. Losing her husband hurt her badly, and she nearly lost her only child, too.
Ebonbolt 9th May 2017, 11:40 PM edit delete reply

Still thinking that Noctis is almost completely off of Calli's radar...
Haegan2005 10th May 2017, 10:28 PM edit delete reply

Miamistax 9th May 2017, 10:34 PM edit delete reply

Episode 1500 - I've been reading this for so long, since before the great hiatus. I feel so old.
mjkj 10th May 2017, 12:17 AM edit delete reply

Wow, indeed... congratulations on the 1500th update (temporary at least) ;)

...and thank you for the great story, Cent and Rose...

Indeed thank you for pointing it out Miamistax.

Gilrandir 10th May 2017, 3:16 AM edit delete reply
Well spotted, @Miamistax. Congratulations @Centcomm, @Tokyo Rose, and all other contributors and creative team members.
megados 10th May 2017, 5:00 AM edit delete reply

Absolutely yes! Congratulations, Cent and Rose!
mjkj 9th May 2017, 10:39 PM edit delete reply

Wow, there, be careful, Acantha - no laughing yet...

I hope Lynn and her mom can get to terms and not let their relationship suffer...

TheSkulker 9th May 2017, 11:34 PM edit delete reply

@Miamistax: Thanks for pointing that out. Nine years and counting, 1500 strips! (NOT including the ones removed and/or redone.) That is one huge body of work, all excellent and (unfortunately), under appreciated. Not many artists/authors can look back at such an opus with such well deserved pride.

Thank you TR and CC for creating a window on a world and people that have been transformed from just fiction to very real environments and personalities that we have taken into our hearts and minds. There is no real discernible difference between the DC characters and most of the "RW" characters we see on the news. We will never meet them and they are just as much "stories" as the DC cast. (And the DC cast is more interesting and likeable - (with some exceptions!))
mjkj 10th May 2017, 12:17 AM edit delete reply

Well, TheSkulker, I guess you clicked the wrong reply button, there ;) the ones on top of the respective posts are the right ones...
Sheela 9th May 2017, 10:48 PM edit delete reply

Heat rose to Acantha's cheeks, as she realized she was looking at Lynn's breasts again.
"No, no - Bad Acantha", she thought to herself and forced herself to look away from Lynn.
And then she laid eyes on Calliope, there was no doubt where Lynn had gotten her magnificent body from, and Calliope still had it!
Heat rose to Acantha's cheeks once AGAIN ! "Bad, BAD Acantha !!" She thought as she realized how she looked upon Lynn's Mom.

Fire ze missiles ! >_<

Also, grats on 1500 comics. :)
antrik 9th May 2017, 11:42 PM edit delete reply
Oh no, what have I done! ;-)
Tokyo Rose 10th May 2017, 12:05 AM edit delete reply

Ha fucking ha.
Sheela 10th May 2017, 5:09 AM edit delete reply

Aw, too much ?

To be fair though, Calliope does have a fabulous body.
Frankly, I'm surprised that she hasn't found a new partner.
Dragonrider 10th May 2017, 8:36 AM edit delete reply

A. She hasn't looked for one she's been too busy drinking her troubles into oblivion. I'm surprised she kept her job.

B. No one will ever replace Fallon.
antrik 10th May 2017, 9:23 AM edit delete reply
@Sheela yeah, Calliope has been living in the past -- even if she saw overtures from potential partners, she would just brush them off. (Reminds me a bit of Amelia in Vanity Fair.)

Also, considering that women are predominant in this world -- and almost all of those we have seen so far, have bodies and faces like a model -- I don't think Calliope is actually in a particularly good position on *this* score...
Timotheus 10th May 2017, 11:04 AM edit delete reply

They're all small scale replicas of the real thing?
All the Pickles 10th May 2017, 5:08 PM edit delete reply

No, just their faces. They're basically like this: image
Timotheus 9th May 2017, 11:13 PM edit delete reply

What's needed right now is a wise old veteran that both Calli and Lynn respect to step in and moderate the situation. Someone who understands both their positions and what they've both been going through. I wonder who that could be?
antrik 9th May 2017, 11:43 PM edit delete reply
Yeah, I've been wondering why Dolly isn't here right now...
Tokyo Rose 10th May 2017, 12:06 AM edit delete reply

Dolly's undergoing treatment for her own injuries.
Gilrandir 10th May 2017, 3:21 AM edit delete reply
velvetsanity 10th May 2017, 4:12 AM edit delete reply

Because that is what one does when one is injured and circumstances permit. :D
Gilrandir 10th May 2017, 5:06 AM edit delete reply
That is what humans do under those circumstances because humans can not easily switch bodies. Dolly is in a chassis that was customized and specialized for a specific purpose which has now been fulfilled. That chassis is inferior in many ways as regards suitability for Dolly's chosen profession. Suitable chassis are likely to be available "off the rack" (remember how quickly Ada and TeeDee were reloaded), while maintenance on the more organic chassis is likely to be more painful, time-consuming, and error-prone (seeing as it is experimental). Reload Dolly into a new, top-of-the-line Guardian chassis, give her a couple of hours to integrate, and reunite her with her family while allowing you to explore the prototype model five at your leisure.

Now, if you happen to have a Cassian chassis lying around to pour Dolly into -- she might consider that one worth keeping enough to warrant hanging around for the rehab and refurbishment. ^_^
velvetsanity 10th May 2017, 5:11 AM edit delete reply

You're assuming that she *can* be transferred back to a more standard body after being put into such a unique masterpiece. And it wasn't a specialized body for the mission, it was a custom built one-off that Calli had made specifically as a gift to Dolly (I think it may have been intended as a birthday present). It just happened to be ideally suited to the mission.
Just_IDD 10th May 2017, 6:23 AM edit delete reply
Dolly's body was not built for this function. Calliope had intended it to be a gift for her because of her long service to the family. Even Lynn knew of the body and recognized when she saw it. Calliope built this prototype as a first step for Bridging the Gap between Android and human. Remember centcom doesn't even know where the person Calliope communicated with to build the body is even located although at the time there was much speculation that Tokyo Rose was the source.
megados 10th May 2017, 7:21 AM edit delete reply

It never seemed to me that androids could just effortlessly pop in and out of bodies. Aside from cost, there are given in-story restrictions which make that a sizeable hurdle. From a world building standpoint, allowing it would give them an insurmountable unfair advantage.

Dolly expressed her displeasure with the inconvenience of pain, but that was the only real problem she had. Once she has her injury taken care of, it will no longer be a factor.

I think that acclimating to another body would take considerably longer than treating her injury. Additionally, while it makes for a cool visual, the representation of migrating when she acquired this one, makes it seem like it might be somewhat more traumatic than fixing her knee.
antrik 10th May 2017, 9:27 AM edit delete reply
In addition to the other points, IIRC we have been told that reloads are actually pretty risky?...
Gilrandir 10th May 2017, 10:38 AM edit delete reply
As far as I know, an arranged upload to a prepared chassis under nominal conditions is as risky as changing which car you have in your garage. There are numerous indications of this in earlier parts of the story:

* - Dolly's agent trying to persuade her to a body upgrade, rather than skills upgrades
* - Ada and TeeDee's conversations about TeeDee's proposed upgrade to a HulkingBrute(TM)
* - Officer Ray's body replacement, rather than just fixing his arm
* - Minx's offhand implication that she has been through several chassis

All the uploads we have seen have been under suboptimal conditions that added substantially to their risk. It has been stated that flash backups are inherently risky. We also saw Dolly going from (essentially) running MSDOS on a 286 to running Windows 10 on a quad-core i7 machine without going through envy intermediate stages and on an accelerated schedule. Or, to return to the earlier automotive metaphor, Dolly going directly from an automatic-transmission Audi to a top-fuel dragster. Real risk of a blown engine or frame damage before she learned how to safely adapt her driving style.

It is possible that body transfers are as risky as the creatrices need them to be for story purposes at the time, but the previous implications were that they were not risky.
Gilrandir 10th May 2017, 10:51 AM edit delete reply
Returning to the earlier point of the body not being special-purpose built, but a gift from Calliope to Dolly. Although this is true, it should be noted that Dolly only accepted the chassis upgrade because she was convinced it was necessary to save Lynn. Returning (yet again) to the automotive metaphor, there's nothing to keep a rich employer from giving a well-loved family bodyguard a high-end Ferrari sports car. But there would be few things less useful to a professional bodyguard than a high-end Ferrari sports car. Dolly strikes me much more as preferring a HummVee or an armored Land Rover. I suspect Calliope suffers from many of the same 'child of privilege' issues that Lynn does (for obviously similar reasons).

My own (obviously wrong) conjecture is that the model 5 prototype was an attempt by Calliope to finesse the well-loved Dolly past the lifespan restrictions, as well as encourage her to take up more of a 'family' role, and less of a 'bodyguard' role. But it's just an impression, with no concrete support. Just trying to make sense of why (other than 'story reasons') Calliope would build something like the model 5 and then try to give it to a Guardian like Dolly.

Now, if she were in a Cassian chassis, that would probably offer enough incentive for Dolly to keep the body and go through the healing process, rather than just swap out to a more appropriate design. Or if this is something like "The Greatest American Hero", where the model 5 has all sorts of super powers (like a combat HUD), if Dolly had only had enough time to read the User's Manual, then there might be a rationale for her to keep it. I guess we'll see when the scene shifts to Dolly in the body shop.
Timotheus 10th May 2017, 11:22 AM edit delete reply

Item A: The less biological components involved in the transfer, the easier the personality transfer.
Item B: It's easier to transfer between the same body types, transferring to higher body types leaves gaps in the sensor matrix that will need to be filled and thus stress the personality. Down-sizing will involve pruning that can be very dangerous to personal integrity.
Item C: There is always the danger of data corruption when transferring between shells. The more complex the transfer, the greater the risk.
Item D: Just because you've saved all your data doesn't mean it can be transferred in exactly the same way it was originally organized. The new personality may not be the same as the old one, resulting in someone "loosing themselves".
antrik 10th May 2017, 11:24 AM edit delete reply
AIUI, Dolly got her *first* adult body not long before being taken on by the Taylors. The agent chided her for going for better skills rather than a more flashy (fleshy) body -- but it was at no point about doing *additional* body swaps.

Officer Ray didn't get a body replacement -- he only got a skin job.

Minx has had to swap bodies because she was in an accident, not for the fun of it.

TeeDee is the only one that might be somewhat relevant to your point -- but even she delayed the swap, rather than going for it the moment she had saved up for her dream body...
Gilrandir 10th May 2017, 12:02 PM edit delete reply
@antrik, all of my examples are relevant. You are free to disagree with my interpretations, of course. You may even discover I have made errors of fact -- I make a lot of those. But I hope I am not often guilty of introducing irrelevancies into a discussion. ^_^

We disagree on exactly how to interpret early Dolly's agent's remarks about whether or not a new shell transfer was what the agent recommended, or a more sensible initial shell purchase was what was recommended. I can see the possibility of either interpretation, but prefer my own, absent additional evidence. (For what I hope are perfectly understandable reasons. ^_^) Additional Data:
* - Per the Tech Page, an android typically spends a year as a "zero", and another year in a "learning body".
* - The story takes place in 3825 ("Comic 1 - Introduction").
* - The scene with the agent takes place in 3768 ("Comic 593 - Memory Shards 01")
* - Per the Cast Page, Dolly is 60 years old.
This is close enough that your interpretation is certainly defensible, but for that to be the case, Dolly would have had to spend an extra year in the 'learning body' for some reason not obvious to me (since she was apparently created in 3765).

As for Officer Ray, the relevant reference is here ("Comic 466 - Coping"). Minx clearly observes that Ray is in a new shell, not has just replaced the skin over his prior shell. Ray points out that the changes are solely cosmetic -- i.e., going from a blue 1979 Toyota Corolla to a dark green 1980 Toyota Corolla (in my opinion), but that doesn't change the fact that it appears to be a body job, not a skin job.

The reason for Minx's changes is irrelevant. The point is that neither Minx not Dolly appear to regard her as 'lucky' for having survived so many transfers (especially with a nickname like 'Jinx'), just recognition of the truly appalling amount of money involved in, effectively, buying a new car every 12-18 months. (Reference is "Comic 1118 - Memory Shards 07".)

Again, you are free to have a different interpretation of their exchange.
megados 10th May 2017, 3:16 PM edit delete reply

FWIW, I think Timotheus' points A-D are valid. Even under the best of conditions, low risk does not equal no risk. I believe those kinds of conditions exist when changing body types. Model zero and learning bodies are probably optimized for transfer since that is one of its main functions. As bodies get more complex, the optimization would logically shift to body performace. A little more risky perhaps? We don't really have much information for the transitions between lower level bodies to assess a risk factor. We would have to assume that any body transition would involve SOME risk, however minimal.

Dolly herself did not opt to change bodies until it became necessary. She now has this body, and did not have much time to acclimate, and she is still learning about it even now. Once her knee is fixed up, and she is no longer frustrated with it, she would do well to remember that this body performed quite well in combat with a Cassian. It could have gone differently, had it been Dolly who delivered the same debilitating kick to Kali.

Dolly's motivation is her caring. She loves the Taylors and would do anything they ask. Calli built this body for her in reciprocation, to repay Dolly in a meaningful way. I think that Dolly would rather not discard this gift. Because she cares about the Taylors, their opinions are important to her. I very much doubt she would make any decision without it. They all care about, and love one another.
antrik 10th May 2017, 3:16 PM edit delete reply
While the meaning of "shell" might be up for interpretation, on the very page you linked, Ray himself refers to it as a skin job.

The reason why Minx did the body swaps is not irrelevant, as apparently you are trying to prove that androids are doing body swaps all the time on a whim -- while the very page you linked, precisely shows that it's actually a very unusual thing.

Of course there can be a wide range of reasons for that. I'm not even sure about it being risky -- I just have a vague recollection of reading a word-of-god remark to that effect...

And when I say risky, I do not mean it fails on every second attempt or so. (So that surviving two reloads would be a surprising thing...) Maybe it's one in twenty, or even one in a hundred. That's still a damn big risk, to be doing it just for convenience.
Gilrandir 10th May 2017, 3:31 PM edit delete reply
Not on a whim, but on a par with an equipment change, rather than a surgical procedure (under benign and optimal conditions). If the equipment being changed is sufficiently expensive, it still isn't whimsical.
Centcomm 10th May 2017, 3:41 PM edit delete reply

minx had actually reached the limit of City funded body swaps. And had maxed out her credit line as well as her insurance. Her current body was paid for by her clients and shes kept this one the longest. Dolly did indeed spend more on training than her first model 3 body she actually got a guardian model that was on sale. Due to it being a fashion body made after a popular Vid hero, the fad had died when Dolly bought it thus the much cheaper price.
Gilrandir 10th May 2017, 5:42 PM edit delete reply
This discussion line provokes another question which is (at least) interesting to me: Since androids are considered citizens in New Troy, and it has (as I recall) a population of many tens of thousands of them, the odds are that at least some of them are quite wealthy. We have already heard that some androids have bodies 'on reserve', which (presumably) means that not only is their current body paid for, but their replacement is already paid for (or being paid off) in preparation for the eventuality of needing the next body ...

Are there any really, embarrassingly rich androids in New Troy that keep a 'garage' of multiple bodies and swap between them as appropriate for what they are doing? For example, a model 3 for the daily office work, a model 4 for after hours and recreation, a specially armored model 2 for when they want to go skydiving or speedboat racing, a male model 4 for getting their kink on, etc.?
Haegan2005 10th May 2017, 5:57 PM edit delete reply

many reasons have been given for Dolly not returning to an earlier model, but I think the real impediment would be that her current model has immense processing power that the others simply do not have. Having said this, the same processing power can be installed in the other models and then she would only have to deal with the lack of sensory data that she gets from the current beta model.
antrik 10th May 2017, 6:16 PM edit delete reply
That's a good point -- though I wonder whether there might be something unique about the level 5 body, that's necessary to enable this processing power, so it actually can't be retrofitted to an older model...
sigpig 11th May 2017, 9:26 AM edit delete reply

@antrik - That's an easy one to answer - she has the "new-and-improved" fun-factory installed. Never mind the tactile sensation of VERY human-normal skin, the effect of hormones, the ability of becoming intoxicated, etc...
Gilrandir 10th May 2017, 6:24 PM edit delete reply
Of all the rationale for making the transfer irreversible, a qualitative difference in the model 5 seems most plausible. However, since (unless I misremember) it is possible to upload even meat-people into android bodies, it would seem hard to justify being unable to upload a model 5.
antrik 10th May 2017, 6:54 PM edit delete reply
Huh? The only reference I remember that went even remotely in that direction, was only as a future possibility -- and it wasn't really about uploading either. (In "Fracture Peace...02", presently at )
antrik 10th May 2017, 6:13 PM edit delete reply
IIRC even in Troy androids do not enjoy all the same rights as humans -- so it's not really clear that they can indeed do business and get filthy rich...

In fact, we don't know anything about Troy's economy at all. They might not even have private businesses...
megados 10th May 2017, 6:26 PM edit delete reply

@Gilrandir, I can envision someone having reserved a new body "just in case", especially if they might be subject to high risk situations. If they (or some benefactor) can afford to do so, I don't see why not. That said, though, I doubt that, however much money someone might have, anyone has "a body for each day of the week". It seems to me such a practice would be frowned upon, even if there was no risk. I don't have any evidence for that, it is only my supposition.
Gilrandir 10th May 2017, 9:29 PM edit delete reply
People frown on the eccentric behaviors of the rich all the time -- it doesn't stop them from doing it. ^_^

Remember, I am not saying such person or persons exist, I am merely asking if they might. Their existence seems likely, given what we know of New Troy society and technology, if it is true that nominal body transfers are relatively error- and risk-free. But the vision of the creatrices may be quite different.
Sheela 11th May 2017, 1:25 PM edit delete reply

TeeDee actually have an already paid off body, just waiting for her to upload herself to it.

But then, she *is* working a high risk job, so it may be a bit unusual. With highspeed manufactoring available, ut would make more sense to have a sort of a "wishlist" stored at your insurance company, and then if something happen, they could compile a body with the functions on the wishlist in a fairly short amount of time.
Centcomm 11th May 2017, 12:59 PM edit delete reply

"shell" refers to the cosmetics of the body.. Ray still has his old internals.. Sorry
Sheela 11th May 2017, 2:55 PM edit delete reply

Don't be sorry, I'm sure his old internals are quite charming, in a quaint sort of way.

Not that it matters, it seems like Minx likes them just fine as it is. :)
Gilrandir 11th May 2017, 4:16 PM edit delete reply
No need for apologies, thank you for the correction, @Centcomm.

Ok, @antrik. I will concede to your interpretation on Officer Ray.
SeanR 11th May 2017, 6:16 PM edit delete reply
My understanding of that is, an Android spends a year in simulation. If they turn out sociopathic in that year, they are aborted.
They then spend a year in a "model zero", Learning body, with very little, if any, human interaction. (I read that to mean while full-sized, clumsy powertools capable of accidentally ripping a human arm out of its socket.)

Oh, and Dolly's biggest superpower, right now, is an apparent lack of any restriction on what she can get away with. She expected to be stopped before she beat the tar out of that bounty hunter, and asked, to her self "Cally, what did you do?"

Dolly needed to go undercover. She could have gone undercover using only the gear that Ada or Teedee used, but was given an even better design, instead. She was, possibly, downgraded, in that she only has (boosted) human reactions, but she noted, while killing the wasters, that she would actually be faster, if she wasn't expecting a non-existent HUD to frame her shots for her.

The risk of swapping an android is probably on par with the risk of major surgery. People die from routine procedures all the time, but the benefit is judged as worth the risk. Some times, these major surgeries are mostly QoL, or cosmetic. I know a couple people who went under the knife to basically have a rubber band wrapped around their stomach.
I knew at least one person who, as a consequence of essentially a minor QoL procedure, rapidly declined and died as much as half a decade before he probably would have. (He was in his eighties, but he was still pretty durable, all things considered.)

Gilrandir 11th May 2017, 8:32 PM edit delete reply
You may be right, @SeanR. We lack mortality data for androids undergoing the upload procedure. Without that, a large portion of this is just unfounded speculation.
antrik 12th May 2017, 12:46 AM edit delete reply
@SeanR minor semantic quibble: I don't think Dari really qualifies as a bounty hunter... She is primarily a gutter. She has been given the mission to abduct Lynn -- but since it was a contract given to her specifically, rather than a general bounty on Lynn for the first taker, I don't think "bounty hunter" is really the right term here?
cattservant 10th May 2017, 12:00 AM edit delete reply

All the Pickles 10th May 2017, 12:15 AM edit delete reply

Yay! Now it's about time for more reboots to consolidate pages and bring the number back down.
Rashala 10th May 2017, 12:14 AM edit delete reply

Calli still in pissed momma bear mode, which is understandable, and acantha feels awkward cause now that loony mctoony is burning in hell she really is alone family wise and feels awkward imposing on time Lynn has with her mom and somehow ruining it. Once Calli's calmed Dow some and talks more with Lynn about what happened I imagine she will open up her mom heart some for acantha and be a little less grrr arghish. Noctis well she's just happy the heiress is alive that there are no drones holding her, and generally playing her cards close to her ddefinitionless chest
antrik 10th May 2017, 1:51 AM edit delete reply
"Yes, I'm absolutely sure." (PS. Anything will be better than *this*...)
Just_IDD 10th May 2017, 6:29 AM edit delete reply
Calliope should visit a councillor herself so she can stop drowning in depression. She is going to need lots more sessions because she has buried it down pretty deep. The other thing that Calliope and Lynn don't truly understand is that Acantha has been seeing a counselor called Aeneas. And while he was really messed up he still was able to provide really good advice.
chk 10th May 2017, 8:00 AM edit delete reply

1500 pages! Congratulations.
Centcomm 10th May 2017, 3:41 PM edit delete reply

Thank you Muchly!
chk 10th May 2017, 8:28 AM edit delete reply

I think Acantha wants Lynn to go along with her mother because:

(a) She doesn't need the tension right now;

(b) She is, no doubt, tired. She did, after all just have open heart surgery; and mostly

(c) She sees a family structure she has never known. She would love to have a mother care enough to be angry/concerned. She wants peace between them.
antrik 10th May 2017, 9:39 AM edit delete reply
I don't think it's true that she has never known this. She grew up most of her live with both her parents alive; and I believe they had a normal family relationship. Note that her father has been murdered only four years ago. I don't remember a precise time frame having been mentioned for her mother; but I think it must have been similar.

Of course that doesn't invalidate the fact that she misses having a real family, which is why the quarrel pains her -- and being at the centre of the disagreement just makes it extra bad...
chk 10th May 2017, 5:34 PM edit delete reply

I'm sure you're right.
notStanley 10th May 2017, 12:21 PM edit delete reply

Still getting used to Noctis dressed down in what looks like t-shirt and yoga pants.
antrik 10th May 2017, 3:21 PM edit delete reply
Correct me if I'm wrong -- but doesn't T-shirt kinda imply sleeves?...
Centcomm 10th May 2017, 3:43 PM edit delete reply

amusingly these kinds of shirts are called " wife-beaters. Or t backs depending on the back.

Although Noctis would disapprove of such a action.
SeanR 11th May 2017, 6:22 PM edit delete reply
On Noctis, it's a Wife-Beater^2.
A Wife beater beater.
velvetsanity 11th May 2017, 10:47 PM edit delete reply

They're also known as a-shirts (don't ask me why, that's what the label on the package they come in calls them)
megados 12th May 2017, 6:10 AM edit delete reply

I heard of them as being called halter tops
velvetsanity 12th May 2017, 3:36 PM edit delete reply

A halter top is something else
megados 12th May 2017, 5:17 PM edit delete reply

Tank top? (I'm not too up on clothing terminology)
velvetsanity 13th May 2017, 10:53 AM edit delete reply

Tank top = a-shirt = what Noctis is wearing, yes
megados 13th May 2017, 11:19 AM edit delete reply

OK, cool, thanks! (day's not a total loss, I learned something) :D
KarToon12 10th May 2017, 2:30 PM edit delete reply

Proof positive that Acantha is going to be a great ruler.
Centcomm 10th May 2017, 3:43 PM edit delete reply

hehe one of many such proofs..
Timotheus 10th May 2017, 3:56 PM edit delete reply

Maybe she'd prefer to be a tape measure?
megados 10th May 2017, 3:58 PM edit delete reply

Possibly a caliper?
antrik 10th May 2017, 4:10 PM edit delete reply
Caliper? Nah, that would be Noctis ;-)
antrik 10th May 2017, 4:17 PM edit delete reply
(While Maxus would be a yardstick.)
megados 10th May 2017, 4:34 PM edit delete reply

" . . . be a yardstick.)" meter stick.

(Surely by now they would have completed the conversion to metric) . ;)
All the Pickles 10th May 2017, 5:12 PM edit delete reply

Maybe we should just ask Irene. She knows all about his stick.
Just_IDD 11th May 2017, 5:12 PM edit delete reply
Hey buddy, what's your shtick?
antrik 10th May 2017, 6:36 PM edit delete reply
@megados as someone pointed out in another recent discussion, judging by the tech page, they in fact haven't... ;-)

More importantly though, do people actually make this distinction? In German for example, "Zollstock" (literally "inch stick") is still the common word for a folding rule, although most German states converted to metric some 160 years ago...
megados 10th May 2017, 6:47 PM edit delete reply

That is true, but the colloquial translation is simply "ruler" As an aside, I have a couple of those wooden folding rulers, in English units.

I am surprised to learn, though, that they still haven't finished the conversion after all this time! LOL :D
antrik 10th May 2017, 7:00 PM edit delete reply
I assumed it depends on the type: "ruler" more typically being used for small ones (used for drawing etc.), and "yardstick" for larger ones (used in construction)?

What do you mean by "English units"?
megados 10th May 2017, 7:05 PM edit delete reply

English units = inches, feet, yards, etc.
Sheela 11th May 2017, 2:10 PM edit delete reply

Curiously, in the middle ages, the English Units was adjusted to fit with the old Roman system,(heck, it still has the Roman Mile in it) which in turn took inspiration from the Greek system, which had it roots in the old Egyptian Cubit system.

Dunno where the Egyptians got their stuff from, but the oldest "cubit sticks", are only from 400 BC, and since the pyramids are a heck of a lot older, there must be some older systems that we just haven't found yet.
Timotheus 11th May 2017, 2:44 PM edit delete reply

All physical measurement systems are ultimately derived from body parts, the inch was the distance between a finger tip and a knuckle, a foot was the length of a foot, longer distances were measured in strides(yards) or cubits (finger tip to elbow), etc. These became standardized for a workshop, building project or nation by basing them on a owner, architect, or ruler and then issuing standardized measures based on them.
Sheela 11th May 2017, 3:00 PM edit delete reply

I mean systems where they tried to standardize the units (even if they originally derived from bodyparts) using things like yardsticks and the likes.

Obviously, the advantage to that, is that a 6 foot tall door will fit in a 6 foot tall hole, despite what size the feet are on the carpenter and the mason.

So there was money to be had from a standardized system of measurements.
Just_IDD 11th May 2017, 5:29 PM edit delete reply
You two are missing other fun ones. An Acre is 1 chain by 1 furlong, or 4 rods by 1000 links.
Sheela 11th May 2017, 5:36 PM edit delete reply

@Just_IDD :
But aren't all of those from the same system ? ie. English Units.
Timotheus 11th May 2017, 9:41 PM edit delete reply

Nope, at one time every city, town, country, merchant, crafts person, or builder could and did have their own measurements. the only standardization was for trade purposes, and even that was a local thing. (A Troy Ounce, used in precious metal transactions, was the official ounce of the city of Troyes in France, which became the world's standard.) Likewise the yard (from the tip of the nose to the tip of the finger, usually of the reigning king or bishop) was used in the sale of cloth and cloth merchants had yardsticks for each of the markets they bought and sold in and conversion tables for the prices. Standardization was a long and tedious process that only came about because of the industrial revolution the invention of interchangeable parts. This finally forced the business community to tear the power of standard making from the government and come up with universal standards, and even then there was a lot of local booster ism. It took the French revolution and Napoleon to actually force the metric system down enough of Europe's throat to make it big enough for the rest of the world to start adopting it.
antrik 12th May 2017, 2:34 AM edit delete reply
@Timotheus attempts to standardise measures go back at least to Roman times, and have been repeated multiple times throughout the middle ages etc.

It is true that increasing globalisation made it both more important and more practical to stick to them. However, this is certainly *not* about the business community prevailing over governments. In fact any effective standardisation requires government involvement. Left to their own devices, commercial forces are much more interested in protecting their vested interests, thus proliferating multiple incompatible standards; or resulting in monstrosities full of silly compromises to appease all involved parties, rather than emphasising practicality.
SeanR 11th May 2017, 6:32 PM edit delete reply
My theory is that the SI Meter was selected to as closely approximate a PARISIAN yard as was practical, and still be "based" on some measure of our planet.
I mean, seriously, 1/40,000,000th of the polar circumference of the earth? That's a pretty odd fraction to fix on.

Also, my theory is the French wanted to base SI on phenomena, rather than people, because they were in the process of eliminating the very people standard measures tended to be based on; the nobility.

Further, my theory is the US still hasn't adopted it for two reasons. We have a LOT of things in the old measures. Our grid-laid roads are laid out on the mile.
And we don't want to do something we didn't invent...even though at least one of our forefathers wanted to, and our money was metric before pretty much anyone else.
megados 11th May 2017, 6:40 PM edit delete reply

Additionally, to convert or replace machine tools based on English units except by attrition, could prove prohibitively expensive.
antrik 12th May 2017, 2:22 AM edit delete reply
@SeanR that theory seems rather far-fetched, since apparently the French didn't actually use the yard... (The foot and fathom being the major units instead.) And the fraction isn't *that* odd, since it was actually defined as 1/10,000,000 of the distance between the north pole and the equator (at the Paris meridian). The fact that it was closer to 3 French feet (or half a fathom) than to the English yard, just seems to be a coincidence.

While it is true that the various definitions of the foot as a base unit go back to some ancient kings' actual feet, I doubt that really played a role in devising the metric system. Like many concepts of the revolution, it was rather based on rationality. The idea of a decimal system of measures derived from natural constants -- such as the earth's circumference -- has been proposed long before the revolution.

The challenges of metrication are the same in the US as everywhere else. (Attrition of *people* set in the old ways actually being more significant than tools...) The particularly strong resistance in the US must be attributed entirely to cultural phenomena, I believe.
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