This next one is made by DizzasterJuice from the awesome Comic Crease and White out. They are also CGI. He wanted to so a short for us so .. looks like it is going to be canon. So enjoy!
Among those webcomics of which I am aware, in my opinion, 'Off World: The Crease' is the only one in the same league as 'Data Chasers' and 'Luna Star.'
I wouldn't discount Steven Vincent's "Liberty Lass", Chk... He's still learning but he gets better by leaps on every new page...
but, yeah... Dizzy and Cent are the two masters of CGI Artistry. Although their styles differ some and you can usually tell one artist from the other (as it should be) their attention to detail are undeniable.
Folks, we are looking at Di Vinci vs Michaelangelo all over again!
Also, the craft seems to be pretty much the same model as the "Arrows" used by "present day" Troy S&R -- so I would assume it must be pretty close on the timeline...
Certainly some group of wasteland inhabitants; I don't think we can say much more at this point... Except I'm pretty sure it's *not* gutters, with this kind of morals/rhetoric :-)
I will point to two characteristics that point to gutters:
1. Mention of the inhabitants being "soulless". If you think that someone is not worthy of being called a human being, you can do anything to them. The Nazis and other dictatorial regimes called the people they exterminated "sub human" and similar things. I also recall what a reporter heard when he visited a gathering of "Christians" who kill doctors who carry out abortions. The leader of that group said something similar to, "Look into their eyes. You'll see that they don't have souls!"*
2. I looked back at the fight between Dolly, Ceci and the gutters. The gutters were clothed in leather (ie without metal).
yes,,, and also they used modern weapons an a APC..
in this arc i see the gutters as city wannabes, an the wasters as tribals ,, like from " Zero Dawn..
Really, anyone who has made the wastes their home could have that belief. It might not be restricted solely to gutters, although it is easy to imagine gutters sharing that belief.
Alternatively, consider this: "gutters" is a city term for anyone living outside the scope of 'civilized' life. Although, until now, we have only seen comparatively fierce and rapacious examples, there could easily be a wide variety of cultures in the wastes. In the same way that, to settlers in the USA, both the (stereotypically) ferocious Comanche tribes and the (stereotypically) peaceful Navaho tribes were all just 'injuns'. The peaceful ones are just a lot less likely to pop up in a story focusing on the city dwellers.
Well, the gutters are only a faction of the wasteland, named so because they hunt people and gut them for their bodyparts, which they sell to less savory clinics in the wastes / fridges of main cities.
It's not a common denominator for people in the wastes, that's probably something like "waster". At least, that's how I have understood it.
For example, the settlement that Dolly and CeCi emergency landed in, had normal people like Mira (awesome mechanic) and Breaker (Dolly's dick pillow), and even the ever charming Rotter (merchandiser extraordinaire) ! :D
They even had an Epiphyte living there.
None of those could be categorized as a "gutter", though Dolly *did* dispense of a few gutters in that town.
From what I can glean from this page, some people from New Troy are about to crash land in the wastes, and they are about to get a lesson or two in how the indigenous people look at them as "soulless monsters".
Nitpicky comment incoming: It makes neither noise nor sound; those are the interpretations of the vibrations it causes in the air. With nothing to do the interpreting, all it does is make pressure waves in the air. :)
Alternatively, why have two terms for one phenomenon, and no term for the other phenomenon? We talk about "light" and the "speed of light" without making any precondition that light is just "electromagnetic quantized packets in a defined frequency range until it is collected by an eyeball and interpreted by the brain". Similarly, it seems entirely sensible to use 'sound' (which has a 'speed of sound') for 'pressure waves in a defined frequency range' regardless of perception, whereas 'noise' has additional connotations conferred only in the presence of an interpreting intelligence.
Personally, I prefer to think of a falling skyscraper in a forest as making a percussion jazz riff -- albeit of rather short duration. ^_^
I had always thought of light mostly the same way as sound along those lines. To me, it is considered light if it is being received and interpreted. Otherwise it is a narrow band in the electromagnetic spectrum, called visible light range. Ultraviolet and infrared refer to the area just above, and below this respectively. These areas are invisible to us, but not to other creatures, just as other creatures can perceive ultra-, and sub-sonic vibrations that we cannot. The electromagnetic emissions usually are referred to as the visible light range, just as the vibrations are referred to as the audible range.
Audible sonic emissions are mechanical in nature and consist of a single component, which is pressure gradients within a medium. Electromagnetic emissions consist of two components, being electrical and magnetic. In a hierarchy, electromagnetic emission is to audible emissions as multiplication and division is to addition and subtraction.
Yes, @megados, but you didn't answer the question.
Of what benefit is it to have two terms ("sound" and "noise") for the perceived phenomenon, and no term for the purely physical phenomenon? Why not take control of our vocabulary and make the conscious decision to increase its expressive power while reducing its ambiguity by allocating one term ("sound") to the physical phenomenon and one term ("noise") to the perceived phenomenon? We can do that, if we choose, rather than to champion to other cause.
I have to admit to having misunderstood your premise. I don't really have anything against using 'sound' and 'noise' to make a distinction like that, but the trick there would be to get everyone else on board. As it sits, 'sound' refers to all of the audible events, and 'noise' seems to be used to refer to a subset, which is undesired, or unintelligible sound. As an aside, 'noise' is also used to refer to a similar condition in the electromagnetic spectrum.
Welp. This debate has been going on for centuries, so we probably won't change anyone's mind today.
I get a large charge out of this comments page. We always start off commenting on the comic and seem to wander off in all manner of philosophical directions. Pretty cool.
Also, yes, I agree. Sometimes the discussions take a lot of twists and turns, and are most often very interesting! It can be fascinating to hear all the different views and ideas. (some of the coolest ones come here)
Jimi Hendrix said it: It would be a real drag if we were all the same!
To set the record straight, I was using the following basic definitions, or derivations thereof (courtesy Dictionary.com).
Sound:
2. mechanical vibrations transmitted through an elastic medium, traveling in air at a speed of approximately 1087 feet (331 meters) per second at sea level.
Noise:
4. a nonharmonious or discordant group of sounds.
Basically, sound is a physical effect, noise is our perception/opinion of that effect.
So, is this craft from one of the Evil Trio of Cities, or from the Chosen Ones in the Wastes? Either way, it looks like they're going to be chopping timber. What forgotten mysteries do these ruined cities hold, I wonder?
Cattle and goats will happily eat kudzu. The problem is that while they're eating it, they mostly stand still, and then the kudzu uses them as trellises, as it does all things. Fuck kudzu.
yeah i lso forgot to mention that there is more stuff growing south too.. but this is more likely one of the temperate zones up in Canada. but more towards the middle areas. away from the main citys.
Alpha Tango is having a Charlie Foxtrot because his craft has gone Tango Uniform.
We have already established that radar coverage is weak in the current age. This pilot really should have included where he IS when he declared his emergency. Its helpful for potential searchers.
Actually that was delivered off camera .. Dizz wanted it kept as " indistinct as possible so it could fit anywhere in the time line. And yes Rose did sign off on this. She was very pleased as well!
There are people who have mutated to the point that they are indigenous to the wastes.
Think of the Troll Ellop that brought Dr Demark to Logrin's bunker. He was even psychic.
It would not be far fetched to think that he would consider the non-psychic humans the unfortunate ones.
I mean, they're so squishy they cannot even survive a radiation storm in the wastes .. poor humans.
(In extreme nitpicking mode, I don't believe this kind of buildings would survive relatively unscathed long enough for trees to grow on them... And the forest in the last panel looks rather like a park, with just grown trees and grass, but no fallen tree-trunks, bushes etc... Doesn't take away from the beauty, though :-) )
if we are basing this on our modern materials that would be correct but the time this dead city was constructed they had access to advanced materials. like duracreat and other " super-metals "
I did consider this aspect -- but I really don't think this is what will happen in the future. Although we get access to increasingly durable cheap building materials, typical buildings today are not really any more durable than hundreds of years ago -- rather the opposite I'd say. Improvements in materials are actually just used to drive down costs. A 40 cm reinforced concrete wall is certainly much more durable than a 40 cm clay brick wall -- but that just means we simply build 10 cm or so concrete walls instead. Similarly, while a 10 cm wall of "duracrete" would certainly hold much longer than a 10 cm wall of contemporary reinforced concrete, nobody would use 10 cm of it if 2 cm is sufficient for the expected lifespan -- and with technology advances accelerating in general, the expected lifespan of buildings shortens as well. (Buildings, like everything else, become increasingly obsolete with technology advances; so most of them get torn down sooner or later anyway -- making them more durable only increases both construction and tear-down costs...)
Concrete fails only when it forms cracks that allow moisture to get to the steel rebar causing them to rust. Parts of the Roman aqueducts, which didn't rely on steel reinforcement, are still standing after 2000 years. Construction technology is already advancing to the point where steel reinforcement is being replaced by by fiberous materials that don't rust. Welded wire mesh has been replaced by fiber-mesh concrete and rebar will be replaced by materials such as basalt fiber aggregate.
Speaking of the Romans, they built the Pantheon out of concrete in 126 AD, and it's still standing.
What is more impressive, is that almost two thousand years after it was built, the Pantheon's dome is still the world's largest unreinforced concrete dome!
You are kinda proving my point: we could easily make buildings today that last thousands of years; in fact, we could do that 2000 years ago -- it's just not economical... I doubt that some technological breakthrough or another will suddenly undo the economic realities and reverse the trend.
Actually the reason we switched to fiber mesh concrete is that it is cheaper, faster, and less labor intensive. Same with fiber aggregate. Except for the cost of the aggregate itself, it's way cheaper in all other aspects than steel reinforced concrete. Aggregate is the rock material in concrete.
I specifically did not go into technical details, because that just distracts from the big picture. All I will say is that rebar rust is *not* the only failure mode of reinforced concrete -- improving on this front alone doesn't suddenly make it super-durable regardless of other cost factors.
But that's really just a distraction, since it's assuming that super-durable reinforced concrete will be the most economic building material 700 years from now -- which is a pretty big assumption IMHO. While it's not *impossible* that at times the most economic building material might incidentally also be exceptionally durable, looking at the big picture, such situations are rare exceptions -- it just doesn't seem very likely to be the case at any particular moment in time.
but, yeah... Dizzy and Cent are the two masters of CGI Artistry. Although their styles differ some and you can usually tell one artist from the other (as it should be) their attention to detail are undeniable.
Folks, we are looking at Di Vinci vs Michaelangelo all over again!
...I wonder who it is that is going down... is it the first of the Taylors?
1. Mention of the inhabitants being "soulless". If you think that someone is not worthy of being called a human being, you can do anything to them. The Nazis and other dictatorial regimes called the people they exterminated "sub human" and similar things. I also recall what a reporter heard when he visited a gathering of "Christians" who kill doctors who carry out abortions. The leader of that group said something similar to, "Look into their eyes. You'll see that they don't have souls!"*
2. I looked back at the fight between Dolly, Ceci and the gutters. The gutters were clothed in leather (ie without metal).
* Done from memory
in this arc i see the gutters as city wannabes, an the wasters as tribals ,, like from " Zero Dawn..
It's not a common denominator for people in the wastes, that's probably something like "waster". At least, that's how I have understood it.
For example, the settlement that Dolly and CeCi emergency landed in, had normal people like Mira (awesome mechanic) and Breaker (Dolly's dick pillow), and even the ever charming Rotter (merchandiser extraordinaire) ! :D
They even had an Epiphyte living there.
None of those could be categorized as a "gutter", though Dolly *did* dispense of a few gutters in that town.
From what I can glean from this page, some people from New Troy are about to crash land in the wastes, and they are about to get a lesson or two in how the indigenous people look at them as "soulless monsters".
Notice, for example, Dolly's indiscriminate violent reaction to "gutters": it would make no sense if the term had a broader meaning.
Details & definitions.
Personally, I prefer to think of a falling skyscraper in a forest as making a percussion jazz riff -- albeit of rather short duration. ^_^
Audible sonic emissions are mechanical in nature and consist of a single component, which is pressure gradients within a medium. Electromagnetic emissions consist of two components, being electrical and magnetic. In a hierarchy, electromagnetic emission is to audible emissions as multiplication and division is to addition and subtraction.
That is how I think of it anyway.
Of what benefit is it to have two terms ("sound" and "noise") for the perceived phenomenon, and no term for the purely physical phenomenon? Why not take control of our vocabulary and make the conscious decision to increase its expressive power while reducing its ambiguity by allocating one term ("sound") to the physical phenomenon and one term ("noise") to the perceived phenomenon? We can do that, if we choose, rather than to champion to other cause.
I get a large charge out of this comments page. We always start off commenting on the comic and seem to wander off in all manner of philosophical directions. Pretty cool.
Also, yes, I agree. Sometimes the discussions take a lot of twists and turns, and are most often very interesting! It can be fascinating to hear all the different views and ideas. (some of the coolest ones come here)
Jimi Hendrix said it: It would be a real drag if we were all the same!
Sound:
2. mechanical vibrations transmitted through an elastic medium, traveling in air at a speed of approximately 1087 feet (331 meters) per second at sea level.
Noise:
4. a nonharmonious or discordant group of sounds.
Basically, sound is a physical effect, noise is our perception/opinion of that effect.
Now I'm wondering if you two will do a crossover vignette for Whiteout
And, yep, Diz does beautiful work.
There's the opportunity for some high quality crazy right there. :D
Also, Revenge of the Kudzu !
Try and get the goats to eat THERE !
We have already established that radar coverage is weak in the current age. This pilot really should have included where he IS when he declared his emergency. Its helpful for potential searchers.
Think of the Troll Ellop that brought Dr Demark to Logrin's bunker. He was even psychic.
It would not be far fetched to think that he would consider the non-psychic humans the unfortunate ones.
I mean, they're so squishy they cannot even survive a radiation storm in the wastes .. poor humans.
(In extreme nitpicking mode, I don't believe this kind of buildings would survive relatively unscathed long enough for trees to grow on them... And the forest in the last panel looks rather like a park, with just grown trees and grass, but no fallen tree-trunks, bushes etc... Doesn't take away from the beauty, though :-) )
What is more impressive, is that almost two thousand years after it was built, the Pantheon's dome is still the world's largest unreinforced concrete dome!
But that's really just a distraction, since it's assuming that super-durable reinforced concrete will be the most economic building material 700 years from now -- which is a pretty big assumption IMHO. While it's not *impossible* that at times the most economic building material might incidentally also be exceptionally durable, looking at the big picture, such situations are rare exceptions -- it just doesn't seem very likely to be the case at any particular moment in time.