Comic 1498 - Legacy - Page 1

20th Jun 2017, 9:03 PM
Legacy - Page 1
Average Rating: 5 (18 votes)

Author Notes:

Centcomm 20th Jun 2017, 9:03 PM edit delete
Centcomm
This next one is made by DizzasterJuice from the awesome Comic Crease and White out. They are also CGI. He wanted to so a short for us so .. looks like it is going to be canon. So enjoy!


Off world
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Whiteout
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Comments:

cattservant 20th Jun 2017, 9:15 PM edit delete reply

And now for something completely different...
Centcomm 20th Jun 2017, 9:21 PM edit delete reply

Yep! And this has our official stamp of approval!
Sheela 20th Jun 2017, 10:47 PM edit delete reply

A man with three buttocks, who has a stamp of approval on one of them ?
Norman 21st Jun 2017, 4:24 AM edit delete reply
Must be a cheeky devil.
Stormwind13 21st Jun 2017, 3:21 PM edit delete reply

Well, not COMPLETELY different, catt. It is IN world, just not in the time of Data Chasers. Or Luna Star even.
megados 20th Jun 2017, 9:16 PM edit delete reply

Interesting style, looks like we're in for a treat! Nice, Dizzaster Juice!
Centcomm 20th Jun 2017, 9:22 PM edit delete reply

Oh you have no idea.. i was shocked when i saw these :D
megados 21st Jun 2017, 7:54 AM edit delete reply

This has caused me to look into Dizz's comics, and I would recommend others do the same. Some good concepts there!
chk 21st Jun 2017, 8:48 AM edit delete reply

Among those webcomics of which I am aware, in my opinion, 'Off World: The Crease' is the only one in the same league as 'Data Chasers' and 'Luna Star.'
DLKmusic 21st Jun 2017, 12:14 PM edit delete reply

I wouldn't discount Steven Vincent's "Liberty Lass", Chk... He's still learning but he gets better by leaps on every new page...

but, yeah... Dizzy and Cent are the two masters of CGI Artistry. Although their styles differ some and you can usually tell one artist from the other (as it should be) their attention to detail are undeniable.

Folks, we are looking at Di Vinci vs Michaelangelo all over again!
chk 21st Jun 2017, 1:50 PM edit delete reply

Too true DLK. 'Liberty Lass' is shaping up to be fantastic. And, of course, 'Whiteout' (Dizzaster Juice's other work) ain't to be sneezed at.
chk 21st Jun 2017, 4:15 PM edit delete reply

The storylines in those comics also sets them above the rest.
megados 21st Jun 2017, 8:30 PM edit delete reply

From what I can see, you guys ain't lyin'!
mjkj 20th Jun 2017, 9:28 PM edit delete reply

Wow, great one...

...I wonder who it is that is going down... is it the first of the Taylors?

Centcomm 20th Jun 2017, 9:58 PM edit delete reply

we shall see! :D
Sheela 20th Jun 2017, 10:48 PM edit delete reply

Or maybe a cyborg, a doctor, and two buckets ?
Tokyo Rose 21st Jun 2017, 12:10 AM edit delete reply

Helios Taylor? No; he was one of New Troy's founders, and as the last narration box indicates, this is set a fair piece after that time.
antrik 21st Jun 2017, 10:14 AM edit delete reply
Also, the craft seems to be pretty much the same model as the "Arrows" used by "present day" Troy S&R -- so I would assume it must be pretty close on the timeline...
Centcomm 21st Jun 2017, 11:25 AM edit delete reply

yes it is a Arrow. But it is not a S&R craft.
Sheela 22nd Jun 2017, 5:35 AM edit delete reply

Dr Silver and Marcus is going on a date ?
antrik 23rd Jun 2017, 2:31 PM edit delete reply
A shipwreck in at least three different meanings at once?... ;-)
HiFranc 20th Jun 2017, 10:52 PM edit delete reply

I take it that this is the gutters way of seeing things?
antrik 21st Jun 2017, 9:57 AM edit delete reply
Certainly some group of wasteland inhabitants; I don't think we can say much more at this point... Except I'm pretty sure it's *not* gutters, with this kind of morals/rhetoric :-)
HiFranc 21st Jun 2017, 4:36 PM edit delete reply

I will point to two characteristics that point to gutters:

1. Mention of the inhabitants being "soulless". If you think that someone is not worthy of being called a human being, you can do anything to them. The Nazis and other dictatorial regimes called the people they exterminated "sub human" and similar things. I also recall what a reporter heard when he visited a gathering of "Christians" who kill doctors who carry out abortions. The leader of that group said something similar to, "Look into their eyes. You'll see that they don't have souls!"*

2. I looked back at the fight between Dolly, Ceci and the gutters. The gutters were clothed in leather (ie without metal).


* Done from memory
Sheela 22nd Jun 2017, 5:37 AM edit delete reply

Could also be that from the point of psychic mutants, ordinary humans literally lacks a soul connection, thus they must have no souls.
guest 22nd Jun 2017, 6:56 AM edit delete reply
yes,,, and also they used modern weapons an a APC..
in this arc i see the gutters as city wannabes, an the wasters as tribals ,, like from " Zero Dawn..
megados 22nd Jun 2017, 7:15 AM edit delete reply

Really, anyone who has made the wastes their home could have that belief. It might not be restricted solely to gutters, although it is easy to imagine gutters sharing that belief.
Gilrandir 22nd Jun 2017, 7:32 AM edit delete reply
Alternatively, consider this: "gutters" is a city term for anyone living outside the scope of 'civilized' life. Although, until now, we have only seen comparatively fierce and rapacious examples, there could easily be a wide variety of cultures in the wastes. In the same way that, to settlers in the USA, both the (stereotypically) ferocious Comanche tribes and the (stereotypically) peaceful Navaho tribes were all just 'injuns'. The peaceful ones are just a lot less likely to pop up in a story focusing on the city dwellers.
Sheela 22nd Jun 2017, 11:17 AM edit delete reply

Well, the gutters are only a faction of the wasteland, named so because they hunt people and gut them for their bodyparts, which they sell to less savory clinics in the wastes / fridges of main cities.
It's not a common denominator for people in the wastes, that's probably something like "waster". At least, that's how I have understood it.

For example, the settlement that Dolly and CeCi emergency landed in, had normal people like Mira (awesome mechanic) and Breaker (Dolly's dick pillow), and even the ever charming Rotter (merchandiser extraordinaire) ! :D
They even had an Epiphyte living there.
None of those could be categorized as a "gutter", though Dolly *did* dispense of a few gutters in that town.

From what I can glean from this page, some people from New Troy are about to crash land in the wastes, and they are about to get a lesson or two in how the indigenous people look at them as "soulless monsters".
Gilrandir 22nd Jun 2017, 1:30 PM edit delete reply
I did not get the impression that "gutters" referred exclusively to scavengers of in-use body parts, though you may well be right.
antrik 23rd Jun 2017, 2:30 PM edit delete reply
Not sure what could have given you any other impression... The term has been used exclusively in this narrow meaning throughout the story.

Notice, for example, Dolly's indiscriminate violent reaction to "gutters": it would make no sense if the term had a broader meaning.
Just_IDD 20th Jun 2017, 11:40 PM edit delete reply
So if a skyscraper falls in the forest does it make a noise if there's no one there to hear it?
Ebonbolt 21st Jun 2017, 9:30 PM edit delete reply

Noise? No. Sound? Yes.

Details & definitions.
megados 22nd Jun 2017, 6:13 AM edit delete reply

Nitpicky comment incoming: It makes neither noise nor sound; those are the interpretations of the vibrations it causes in the air. With nothing to do the interpreting, all it does is make pressure waves in the air. :)
chk 22nd Jun 2017, 7:59 AM edit delete reply

I agree with megadose. Until it vibrates an eardrum and translated by the brain into sound, it's just vibrating air.
Gilrandir 22nd Jun 2017, 8:22 AM edit delete reply
Alternatively, why have two terms for one phenomenon, and no term for the other phenomenon? We talk about "light" and the "speed of light" without making any precondition that light is just "electromagnetic quantized packets in a defined frequency range until it is collected by an eyeball and interpreted by the brain". Similarly, it seems entirely sensible to use 'sound' (which has a 'speed of sound') for 'pressure waves in a defined frequency range' regardless of perception, whereas 'noise' has additional connotations conferred only in the presence of an interpreting intelligence.

Personally, I prefer to think of a falling skyscraper in a forest as making a percussion jazz riff -- albeit of rather short duration. ^_^
megados 22nd Jun 2017, 10:46 AM edit delete reply

I had always thought of light mostly the same way as sound along those lines. To me, it is considered light if it is being received and interpreted. Otherwise it is a narrow band in the electromagnetic spectrum, called visible light range. Ultraviolet and infrared refer to the area just above, and below this respectively. These areas are invisible to us, but not to other creatures, just as other creatures can perceive ultra-, and sub-sonic vibrations that we cannot. The electromagnetic emissions usually are referred to as the visible light range, just as the vibrations are referred to as the audible range.

Audible sonic emissions are mechanical in nature and consist of a single component, which is pressure gradients within a medium. Electromagnetic emissions consist of two components, being electrical and magnetic. In a hierarchy, electromagnetic emission is to audible emissions as multiplication and division is to addition and subtraction.

That is how I think of it anyway.
Gilrandir 22nd Jun 2017, 11:20 AM edit delete reply
Yes, @megados, but you didn't answer the question.

Of what benefit is it to have two terms ("sound" and "noise") for the perceived phenomenon, and no term for the purely physical phenomenon? Why not take control of our vocabulary and make the conscious decision to increase its expressive power while reducing its ambiguity by allocating one term ("sound") to the physical phenomenon and one term ("noise") to the perceived phenomenon? We can do that, if we choose, rather than to champion to other cause.
megados 22nd Jun 2017, 11:49 AM edit delete reply

I have to admit to having misunderstood your premise. I don't really have anything against using 'sound' and 'noise' to make a distinction like that, but the trick there would be to get everyone else on board. As it sits, 'sound' refers to all of the audible events, and 'noise' seems to be used to refer to a subset, which is undesired, or unintelligible sound. As an aside, 'noise' is also used to refer to a similar condition in the electromagnetic spectrum.
chk 22nd Jun 2017, 1:41 PM edit delete reply

Welp. This debate has been going on for centuries, so we probably won't change anyone's mind today.

I get a large charge out of this comments page. We always start off commenting on the comic and seem to wander off in all manner of philosophical directions. Pretty cool.
megados 22nd Jun 2017, 3:18 PM edit delete reply

I think you're right, chk.

Also, yes, I agree. Sometimes the discussions take a lot of twists and turns, and are most often very interesting! It can be fascinating to hear all the different views and ideas. (some of the coolest ones come here)

Jimi Hendrix said it: It would be a real drag if we were all the same!
Ebonbolt 23rd Jun 2017, 12:07 AM edit delete reply

To set the record straight, I was using the following basic definitions, or derivations thereof (courtesy Dictionary.com).

Sound:
2. mechanical vibrations transmitted through an elastic medium, traveling in air at a speed of approximately 1087 feet (331 meters) per second at sea level.

Noise:
4. a nonharmonious or discordant group of sounds.

Basically, sound is a physical effect, noise is our perception/opinion of that effect.
megados 23rd Jun 2017, 7:07 AM edit delete reply

Well, as chk pointed out, these things have been debated for a very long time.
Timotheus 21st Jun 2017, 12:14 AM edit delete reply

This is the Sasquatch version of things.
The Old Scribe 21st Jun 2017, 12:16 AM edit delete reply

So, is this craft from one of the Evil Trio of Cities, or from the Chosen Ones in the Wastes? Either way, it looks like they're going to be chopping timber. What forgotten mysteries do these ruined cities hold, I wonder?
DLKmusic 21st Jun 2017, 12:29 AM edit delete reply

I've always liked Dizzy's art! I think this is real kewl, actually!

Now I'm wondering if you two will do a crossover vignette for Whiteout
chk 21st Jun 2017, 8:28 AM edit delete reply

Bidi did show up (very briefly) in the attack of Nova Roma.

And, yep, Diz does beautiful work.
Sheela 21st Jun 2017, 8:45 AM edit delete reply

He really does.
chk 21st Jun 2017, 1:57 PM edit delete reply

I'll be damned. I forgot all about that.
Centcomm 21st Jun 2017, 2:06 PM edit delete reply

Yep! it was a mutual blow up! "D
Gilrandir 23rd Jun 2017, 5:27 PM edit delete reply
@Centcomm! Are you characterizing Bidi and CeCi as 'blow-up dolls'? ^_^
megados 23rd Jun 2017, 5:32 PM edit delete reply

*groan* Okay, that was good.
Gilrandir 24th Jun 2017, 12:13 AM edit delete reply
Careful with the praise -- no one wants me getting an inflated ego. ^_^
Centcomm 24th Jun 2017, 9:27 AM edit delete reply

augh .. ok that is a good one.
Centcomm 24th Jun 2017, 9:27 AM edit delete reply

augh .. ok that is a good one.
kraznor 21st Jun 2017, 1:00 AM edit delete reply
More excellent work from DizzasterJuice and we will see who or what is in that shuttle and who the stone age religious crazies are
Centcomm 21st Jun 2017, 11:24 AM edit delete reply

yep!
Sheela 22nd Jun 2017, 11:49 AM edit delete reply

Imagine what would happen to tribes/ideologies like the Amish, Mormons or Scientology after a holocaust like the one in Datachasers ?

There's the opportunity for some high quality crazy right there. :D
Oberoten 21st Jun 2017, 2:39 AM edit delete reply

I have the biggest of smiles right now. This looks and sounds as if taken directly from one of our mutant games. ;)

Centcomm 21st Jun 2017, 11:24 AM edit delete reply

hehe Dizz did a fantastic job!
Steven-Vincent 21st Jun 2017, 4:36 AM edit delete reply

As soon as I saw this page I knew who made it.
Centcomm 21st Jun 2017, 11:22 AM edit delete reply

hehe we all have our style. :D
velvetsanity 21st Jun 2017, 5:02 AM edit delete reply

By the trees and ground cover, I'm going to guess somewhere in the south? Near Atlanta? Jacksonville? Charlotte? Not enough kudzu for Tennessee...
Just_IDD 21st Jun 2017, 7:15 AM edit delete reply
Last I knew they were looking for anything that liked the taste of kudzu. Given time, it will engulf the planet.
Tokyo Rose 21st Jun 2017, 1:47 PM edit delete reply

Cattle and goats will happily eat kudzu. The problem is that while they're eating it, they mostly stand still, and then the kudzu uses them as trellises, as it does all things. Fuck kudzu.
DizzasterJuice 21st Jun 2017, 7:42 AM edit delete reply

Centcomm said there are more trees the farther north you go, and it takes place in summer so it could be anywhere.
Centcomm 21st Jun 2017, 11:23 AM edit delete reply

yeah i lso forgot to mention that there is more stuff growing south too.. but this is more likely one of the temperate zones up in Canada. but more towards the middle areas. away from the main citys.
Sheela 22nd Jun 2017, 11:33 AM edit delete reply

Ah, sounds like Rose is from the south. :D

Also, Revenge of the Kudzu !
Try and get the goats to eat THERE !
Just_IDD 21st Jun 2017, 7:05 AM edit delete reply
Alpha Tango is having a Charlie Foxtrot because his craft has gone Tango Uniform.

We have already established that radar coverage is weak in the current age. This pilot really should have included where he IS when he declared his emergency. Its helpful for potential searchers.
Centcomm 21st Jun 2017, 11:22 AM edit delete reply

Actually that was delivered off camera .. Dizz wanted it kept as " indistinct as possible so it could fit anywhere in the time line. And yes Rose did sign off on this. She was very pleased as well!
Sheela 22nd Jun 2017, 11:35 AM edit delete reply

Ah, she's happy with the amount of wearing there is ?
megados 22nd Jun 2017, 12:39 PM edit delete reply

Swearing, Sheela? She probably finds the amount insufficient, but liked the visuals and the premise, so she signed off anyway! :D
chk 21st Jun 2017, 8:31 AM edit delete reply

Huh. I never thought of 'pure tribes' and 'the Wastes' together.
Sheela 21st Jun 2017, 8:54 AM edit delete reply

There are people who have mutated to the point that they are indigenous to the wastes.
Think of the Troll Ellop that brought Dr Demark to Logrin's bunker. He was even psychic.
It would not be far fetched to think that he would consider the non-psychic humans the unfortunate ones.
I mean, they're so squishy they cannot even survive a radiation storm in the wastes .. poor humans.
chk 21st Jun 2017, 9:00 AM edit delete reply

Yeah, I suppose I was just thinking of the Gutters as if they were the main inhabitants of the Wastes.
antrik 21st Jun 2017, 9:54 AM edit delete reply
@Sheela the trolls are Epiphyte-derived though, not human-derived...
Sheela 22nd Jun 2017, 5:38 AM edit delete reply

But they are still people !
antrik 21st Jun 2017, 10:03 AM edit delete reply
Beautiful!

(In extreme nitpicking mode, I don't believe this kind of buildings would survive relatively unscathed long enough for trees to grow on them... And the forest in the last panel looks rather like a park, with just grown trees and grass, but no fallen tree-trunks, bushes etc... Doesn't take away from the beauty, though :-) )
Centcomm 21st Jun 2017, 11:20 AM edit delete reply

if we are basing this on our modern materials that would be correct but the time this dead city was constructed they had access to advanced materials. like duracreat and other " super-metals "
antrik 21st Jun 2017, 12:41 PM edit delete reply
I did consider this aspect -- but I really don't think this is what will happen in the future. Although we get access to increasingly durable cheap building materials, typical buildings today are not really any more durable than hundreds of years ago -- rather the opposite I'd say. Improvements in materials are actually just used to drive down costs. A 40 cm reinforced concrete wall is certainly much more durable than a 40 cm clay brick wall -- but that just means we simply build 10 cm or so concrete walls instead. Similarly, while a 10 cm wall of "duracrete" would certainly hold much longer than a 10 cm wall of contemporary reinforced concrete, nobody would use 10 cm of it if 2 cm is sufficient for the expected lifespan -- and with technology advances accelerating in general, the expected lifespan of buildings shortens as well. (Buildings, like everything else, become increasingly obsolete with technology advances; so most of them get torn down sooner or later anyway -- making them more durable only increases both construction and tear-down costs...)
DizzasterJuice 21st Jun 2017, 1:36 PM edit delete reply

Concrete fails only when it forms cracks that allow moisture to get to the steel rebar causing them to rust. Parts of the Roman aqueducts, which didn't rely on steel reinforcement, are still standing after 2000 years. Construction technology is already advancing to the point where steel reinforcement is being replaced by by fiberous materials that don't rust. Welded wire mesh has been replaced by fiber-mesh concrete and rebar will be replaced by materials such as basalt fiber aggregate.
Sheela 22nd Jun 2017, 11:41 AM edit delete reply

Speaking of the Romans, they built the Pantheon out of concrete in 126 AD, and it's still standing.

What is more impressive, is that almost two thousand years after it was built, the Pantheon's dome is still the world's largest unreinforced concrete dome!
antrik 23rd Jun 2017, 2:23 PM edit delete reply
You are kinda proving my point: we could easily make buildings today that last thousands of years; in fact, we could do that 2000 years ago -- it's just not economical... I doubt that some technological breakthrough or another will suddenly undo the economic realities and reverse the trend.
DizzasterJuice 23rd Jun 2017, 4:00 PM edit delete reply

Actually the reason we switched to fiber mesh concrete is that it is cheaper, faster, and less labor intensive. Same with fiber aggregate. Except for the cost of the aggregate itself, it's way cheaper in all other aspects than steel reinforced concrete. Aggregate is the rock material in concrete.
antrik 23rd Jun 2017, 4:46 PM edit delete reply
I specifically did not go into technical details, because that just distracts from the big picture. All I will say is that rebar rust is *not* the only failure mode of reinforced concrete -- improving on this front alone doesn't suddenly make it super-durable regardless of other cost factors.

But that's really just a distraction, since it's assuming that super-durable reinforced concrete will be the most economic building material 700 years from now -- which is a pretty big assumption IMHO. While it's not *impossible* that at times the most economic building material might incidentally also be exceptionally durable, looking at the big picture, such situations are rare exceptions -- it just doesn't seem very likely to be the case at any particular moment in time.
antrik 21st Jun 2017, 10:05 AM edit delete reply
I wonder what the glowing red lights in the third panel are?
Centcomm 21st Jun 2017, 11:21 AM edit delete reply

Not sure actually :D
DizzasterJuice 21st Jun 2017, 11:49 AM edit delete reply

The tail lights of an old bus with the sun shining through them.
image
Centcomm 21st Jun 2017, 2:10 PM edit delete reply

ok thats just plain awesome on a stick!
megados 21st Jun 2017, 2:16 PM edit delete reply

Where do you see a stick? XD
Stormwind13 21st Jun 2017, 3:17 PM edit delete reply

The van is a stick... shift, megados. :-D
chk 21st Jun 2017, 4:28 PM edit delete reply

That is some serious detail.
Sheela 22nd Jun 2017, 5:39 AM edit delete reply

Yeah, but even so, I can't see the stick shift ... at all!
megados 22nd Jun 2017, 7:23 AM edit delete reply

Alleged stick shift >_<
KarToon12 21st Jun 2017, 2:22 PM edit delete reply

This might be the first time I've ever seen actual trees and grass and stuff in DataChasers. It's all been high tech cities up to this point.
Stormwind13 21st Jun 2017, 3:34 PM edit delete reply

Almost, KarToon. There were some trees in Tulip's garden at Breaker's. :-)
Timotheus 21st Jun 2017, 9:39 PM edit delete reply

There were trees in the landscapes around Nova Roma and that bunker city the infiltration team stopped at on the way to Nova Roma.
KarToon12 22nd Jun 2017, 8:42 AM edit delete reply

True. Not as many as THIS, though. XD
Chippewa Ghost 21st Jun 2017, 6:41 PM edit delete reply

This already looks badass! Can't wait for the next page!
Centcomm 21st Jun 2017, 8:59 PM edit delete reply

Dizz did a amazing job on this..
Ebonbolt 21st Jun 2017, 9:37 PM edit delete reply

Yay, double win! We get story, Cent gets a break (rather than broke).
Combat Medic Z 21st Jun 2017, 10:49 PM edit delete reply

Wow, that's awesome! Both this page, and the comic. Bookmarked! I'm so going to read Off World: The Crease. And WhiteOut.
lalverson 22nd Jun 2017, 5:54 PM edit delete reply

Very cool, but the vibe I get is this takes place after all that we have seen.
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