Comic 1522 - Thorough Investigation

15th Aug 2017, 9:00 PM
Thorough Investigation
Average Rating: 5 (17 votes)
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megados 15th Aug 2017, 9:19 PM edit delete reply

CeCi isn't the only CC-EI ? Is she the first? (01) If so, it would seem that series was ramped up rather quickly, no?

If yes, why were so many needed all of a sudden?

Things that make you go "Hmmm"
Marcus Ramesy 15th Aug 2017, 9:41 PM edit delete reply

CC-EI-01 was just the first in her series.. there are many different models..
megados 15th Aug 2017, 9:54 PM edit delete reply

So if she's the first in the series, and she wasn't but some days old, the series was rolled out rather quickly. It makes me wonder what the urgency might be that made it necessary to get a series produced so fast that their stability is in question. CeCi herself was pasted together in the time it took to get Dolly ready to go.
Marcus Ramesy 15th Aug 2017, 9:59 PM edit delete reply

CC-EI-01 has been used for many missions before... she was freshly flashed when she was handed to the taylor guardian..
megados 15th Aug 2017, 10:02 PM edit delete reply

Ah, OK, I see. Thanks!

*edit: Upon review, new info below.
Guest 15th Aug 2017, 11:08 PM edit delete reply
I thought she was a "blank" of indeterminate age that was given the CC-EI-01 designation because she was the first "panic panic we need something custom noooooow" creation Centcomm had to make since the last time black angels were remodeled.
megados 16th Aug 2017, 6:37 AM edit delete reply

In checking back, I'm not so sure about this. Starting Here is the beginning of the sequence where CeCi is brought online. The impression given, is that she was specifically built and programmed for this mission. It doesn't seem like this was an existing model, as CentComm speaks of going all out on the design. It isn't mentioned that this is an upgrade of an existing frame, but rather, CentComm mentions it being built on a modified guardian frame. Everything in the sequence points to CeCi being specifically built for this mission, and not an existing Angel setup.

If this is the case, and she is the first of a series, a number of them were made and sent out in a matter of days.
Gilrandir 16th Aug 2017, 7:30 AM edit delete reply
I got the impression that CeCi was a brand new software/personality package loaded into an existing factory-standard frame. So, the entire assemblage constitutes "new design", even though there was no new hardware design.

Which, assuming that means CeCi is using a standard synthbrain and other components, implies that CentComm's concerns ought to extend far beyond just the other members of CeCi's series, but probably won't because of the way hardware/software pairings are regarded in the Datachaser's universe.
megados 16th Aug 2017, 7:52 AM edit delete reply

@Gilrandir, kind of? It was stated to be a guardian frame, but with a lot of extra hardware that had to be "shoehorned" in. I didn't think the stock guardian frame came with plasma weapons, for example. CentComm says it's modified in her description near the beginning.

But yes, I think you're correct, that she was a new software/personality combo.
antrik 16th Aug 2017, 10:33 AM edit delete reply
According to the infamous Tech page, "Black Angel [...] models commonly use the `Guardian` frame [...], but carry advanced features not found in most non-combat types" etc.
megados 16th Aug 2017, 5:20 PM edit delete reply

@antrik, yes that is true. It also fits with the statements by CentComm. Maybe it's just me, but in the pages where CeCi is introduced, I get the impression that she was custom assembled and programmed for this mission, and there began the CC-IE series.
antrik 17th Aug 2017, 7:42 AM edit delete reply
Sure, she was custom-tailored for this mission -- I'm just pointing out that while she was special even for a black angel, she wasn't *that* special...

Beyond that, the details regarding designation etc. are rather unclear at this point I'd say.
megados 17th Aug 2017, 9:49 AM edit delete reply

OK, finally on the same page! That is what I am getting at: the designation. I would be inclined to think that it designates the build package. Since CeCi was custom created for this mission, my impression is that her designation of CC-IE-01 was the build set up for this mission. Subsequent ones of the series, then would have come later, between the time CeCi was created, and now. If she is ____-01, that is the first of the series, no?

Or, the designation is actually meaningless.
Sheela 17th Aug 2017, 10:35 AM edit delete reply

There's also the possibility that CentComm had several Guardian frames laying about and she grabbed the first one and modified it for the mission.
First one in a series would be labelled -01, yes ?
megados 17th Aug 2017, 12:42 PM edit delete reply

It doesn't seem like it, though, @Sheela. The first speech bubble in the second panel seems to indicate CentComm is planning to keep some laying around, but hasn't.

What all this infers, is that CeCi is the first of her series, was custom created for this mission, is some days old, and between the time her and Dolly went to get Lynn, and right now, there have subsequently been some number of CC-IE Angels put out into the wild.

At least that's what it seems like.
Sheela 17th Aug 2017, 1:33 PM edit delete reply

That's what I mean though, the CC would be CentComm, the E1 one, I'm not sure about, but it could be the first of a guardian line, and the 01. or O1, could be a subspecification .. ie. the mission model we got to see.
megados 17th Aug 2017, 1:40 PM edit delete reply

You could be right*, and/or maybe I'm reading too much into these model numbers. It would be cool to see the brochure! :D

*The CC part makes sense. I don't know what the IE means either, but I had thought it maybe specified the modification package used on the guardian frame, kind of like a model number. Then the 01 was the "serial" number.
Thormation 15th Aug 2017, 10:02 PM edit delete reply

It is *so* painful watching all this hubris from Cent. The only consolation that keeps me going is the rule of storytelling that makes it a near-certainty that anyone being this arrogant, self-righteous, uncharitable, rude, tactless, patronizing, and overall unpleasant is due for the Surprise Backhand of Karma
xpacetrue 15th Aug 2017, 10:50 PM edit delete reply

What I would really like to see happen is for Cent to produce at least one (maybe more than one) model 4 android, complete with bio package (or maybe one of Calli's model 5), with a copy of Cent's own personality matrix. And then I'd like to see said android(s) assigned a regular, everyday job, but one that requires a lot of socialization and interaction with people. Finally, after said android has (or androids have) lived a full life, I'd like to see Cent upload the memories into her core identity, such that she feels that she experienced them herself.

Why don't you walk a lifetime in our shoes, Cent-Comm? Simulating it in your head does not count, especially when you have thousands of years of experience, your military background and your AIS nature. Those get in the way of things like emotions and genuine understanding. The only way to understand the human (or android) condition is to live a normal life starting as a blank slate.

Do this and you'd have the benefit, finally, of understanding how your subjects actually feel and think. Don't you think that would be worth it? Think of how that understanding could help you better tend to your garden.
Marcus Ramesy 15th Aug 2017, 11:05 PM edit delete reply

whos to sa dhe hasnt?
knuut 15th Aug 2017, 11:16 PM edit delete reply
Presuming of course that she is capable of hubris or any of the other traits you list. She is not a social human. She is a long lived but relatively solitary machine with emotions appropriate to that fact. You might have a very long wait.
Sheela 17th Aug 2017, 10:38 AM edit delete reply

CentComm is not human, full stop.

Even if we gave her several lifetimes of emotions directly to her memory core, doesn't mean she would assign the same values to them, as the person who lived them would.
Though it would probably improve her communication protocols, which she *could* stand to upgrade a bit.
xpacetrue 15th Aug 2017, 10:29 PM edit delete reply

Dolly: "Cent... Ceci became a person."
Cent: "So it would appear to a casual observer."

So, it's going to be like that? Deny, deny, deny, eh? Trying to spare Dolly's feelings, are you? :disappointed:

I don't care that Rose redacted the part where Dr. Silver said that Ceci sparked. In fact, I don't care what anyone says. Ceci was a person.

Yes, Ceci was a black angel, designed to fool the agents of foreign powers. Yes, she was designed to simulate a self-aware android. But Ceci was not just a little something more than the average black angel. She was something else entirely.

Her choices, behavior and dialog made it clear that she was not merely responding to conversation in an appropriate manner, ala a chatbot, but that she fully understood the context and subtle nuances.

And, remember, we readers got a glimpse inside Ceci's head. We saw Ceci's last moments. We saw her talking with her watchdog program. We saw her relieved that her final act saved everyone. And we saw her lament the fact that she would not live to do any of the many other things she wanted to accomplish or try.

Ceci was not merely a defective "toaster" or just a dangerous "weapon".
Timotheus 15th Aug 2017, 11:30 PM edit delete reply

Yes, but this is information that Centcom doesn't have. So she is proceeding under the comforting assumption that it is all a normal series of programming glitches and nothing really special. Now if there was only something like a black box or mission diary she could download and listen in to Ceci's inner thoughts.
HiFranc 15th Aug 2017, 11:47 PM edit delete reply

Whilst she would not know most of it, it all depends on what Dr Silver put in the report.
xpacetrue 16th Aug 2017, 1:03 AM edit delete reply

What also had me upset as well as confused was how Ceci's watchdog program talked and behaved in those final moments. Obviously, the watchdog is entirely separate from Ceci's personality matrix. It is a physically separate module in her head. And we see it as a separate entity in her headspace. But, in those final moments, Watchdog tried to comfort Ceci, saying that, although she doesn't know what happens next, she will not leave Ceci and that they'll go there together...

Given that black angels are not supposed to be self-aware or have free will, it makes no sense to program a Watchdog to give comfort to the black angel's personality matrix because it would be unnecessary. So why did it (or she) behave like that?

Does this mean that her Watchdog had become awakened and self-determining, too? Did Ceci's body somehow contain not just one, but two sapient identities? If so, isn't that analogous to lightning striking the exact same place, twice in a row? Or, could it be that Ceci's evolving mind and constant interaction with her Watchdog forced it to evolve as well?
Marcus Ramesy 16th Aug 2017, 6:55 AM edit delete reply

Watchdog is a complete separate module...the design nature of the Black Angels is classified
Gilrandir 16th Aug 2017, 7:33 AM edit delete reply
I'm not exactly sure, @Marcus Ramesay, how useful it is here to leave a comment saying (essentially) "no comment". ^_^
Just_IDD 16th Aug 2017, 5:30 AM edit delete reply
I don't know the doctor silver has returned yet because they were taking other transport that was slightly less accelerated. It could be that dr. Silver's report hasn't yet made it to centcom. Also dr. Silver probably doesn't yet know that CeCe is dead. So it's put less emphasis on the fact that she completely sparked.
antrik 16th Aug 2017, 10:47 AM edit delete reply
@xpacetrue while Commie more or less denies right now that Ceci really became a person (either out of ignorance, or to downplay the situation on purpose), the part where Dr. Bitchy stated she did, is still right there. @Tokyo Rose only redacted the wrong use of the term "sparked", since by current canon, *all* androids in DataChasers are sparked (as @Tokyo Rose pointed out in comments time and time again) -- while the process by which Ceci became a person, is an entirely different phenomenon.
antrik 16th Aug 2017, 10:48 AM edit delete reply
All androids, including every single black angel, I forgot to add.
xpacetrue 16th Aug 2017, 1:27 PM edit delete reply

You're saying that all black angels are "sparked"? That would mean that Cent is not mistaken about Ceci and not merely trying to spare Dolly's feelings about the Ceci we knew. Rather, it would mean that Ceci intentionally sends out self-aware agents - who did not volunteer and have no choice on whether or not to be used up and thrown away like Kleenex - and intentionally disposes of them on mission completion (or failure).

Honestly, that's worse. Much worse.

However, if that is the case, and if the CC line of black angels have Cent-Comm's own personality matrix, I suppose Cent would view the situation as:

Cent: "This series of black angels uses my own personality matrix. As such, I can volunteer my own personality for this highly disposable role. So, it's not like I'm sending these out without a choice in the matter. They are me. Therefore, they made the choice as I made the choice."

Perhaps, though, this debate on what constitutes an identity boils down to the age old debate of Nature vs. Nurture. That is, how much of an individual's identity is due to the environment (and experiences growing up) and how much is due to biology (or physical makeup, such as personality matrix).

The vast majority of experts agree that it's a combination of Nature and Nurture. What is controversial, however, is the degree - the percentages or how much role Nurture or Nature plays.

Consider if you lost your memories - that is, all of your memories. I'm talking complete amnesia, right down to forgetting your name, your parents, your childhood, your friends and acquaintances... everything. Without that, you'd behave differently. Though, friends and family may recognize that some things have not changed.
antrik 16th Aug 2017, 2:08 PM edit delete reply
Sparking only means that androids gain the ability to make actual choices, rather than just following programmed patterns -- unlike bots. It doesn't imply that they necessarily have a sense of being individuals... That's what set Ceci apart from "properly functioning" black angels.
Sheela 17th Aug 2017, 11:07 AM edit delete reply

Also, to be fair to CentComm, CeCi *did* sorta choose to kill herself to save the others. Of course, at that point she couldn't stop the spike, but still, she was aware that it would probably end herself at the time she finally let go of it.

As for watchdog sparking, I do believe I wrote a sketch on that, back on Comic 853 - Options and Centcomm said "No wai! Watchdoggy no sparky!!", so that's that! Yup, yup, she said it just like that ... with a chinese accent as well. I'm sure of it.
cattservant 15th Aug 2017, 10:56 PM edit delete reply

Lots of viewpoints!
Rashala 15th Aug 2017, 11:36 PM edit delete reply

It just awe inspiring to watch her devalue and Basically reduce thinking feeling intelligent beings to simple units to be studied corrected and then recycled...

Starting to think nova romans may have some things right about at least one aid. Area as and the others in nr dead wrong but c1 here......

Also @Marcus thank you,however if I do decide to "pull a teedee " on you I will call ahead and let the local trauma center have a heads up that I am probably due in soon, as well as the morgue just in case.
Marcus Ramesy 16th Aug 2017, 6:16 AM edit delete reply

@rashala fair enough... but I doubt you will need a morgue... unlike CentComs dolls.. Im a little more durable.
Rashala 16th Aug 2017, 11:32 PM edit delete reply

@marcus who said the trauma or mourgue were for you I'm just 100% human no enhancement I should have a card that says caution contents fragile.
Marcus Ramesy 16th Aug 2017, 11:52 PM edit delete reply

*chuckles* dont worry... i promise not ot accidentally shove your head through a durasteel plate wall.. (true story was very messy.. dont recommend it... )
mjkj 15th Aug 2017, 11:42 PM edit delete reply

*lol* ...and again the security clearance...

Ok, no other CeCi ever again... ='(

I guess that was not the response either of them (Dolly/Lynn) wanted to hear...

chk 16th Aug 2017, 9:32 AM edit delete reply

However . . . .
antrik 16th Aug 2017, 10:50 AM edit delete reply
Deja vu time!
Guest 16th Aug 2017, 1:08 PM edit delete reply
You guys realize, of course, that even if another model CC-E1 walks through a door and appears on the next page, that would not be Ceci.

It doesn't matter if the CC-E1 looks identical to Ceci. It doesn't matter if she (or it) goes by the name "Ceci". It doesn't even matter if she has the same personality matrix as the Ceci we knew and loved. Without any of Ceci's memories (or her "defective" "aberration"), she can never be Ceci, because that Ceci is gone.
Tinymurder 16th Aug 2017, 12:39 AM edit delete reply
I'm getting the impression that "However..." is Cent's equivalent of Lynn's "sigh." Gotta say, I'm liking Centcomm. Sure she's prickly and stiff, but she really is straightforward and complex at the same time. She has feelings and yet is so logic-driven at the same time. I love a well written complex character.
Mark_L_A 16th Aug 2017, 8:14 AM edit delete reply

Sounds like MAYBE Cent is going to make a small exception to the rule for Lynn.
Ebonbolt 16th Aug 2017, 6:51 PM edit delete reply

"A"? "Small"? Cent makes so many exceptions for the Taylors, she probably has a separate processor allocated just to keep track of the list.
KarToon12 16th Aug 2017, 7:13 PM edit delete reply

So Ceci was one of many, huh...?

*waiting for the Data/Lore comparison in which a "new" Ceci is "born"*
megados 17th Aug 2017, 4:26 AM edit delete reply

"*waiting for the Data/Lore comparison in which a "new" Ceci is "born"*"

An inherently evil CeCi, who believes in android superiority?
antrik 17th Aug 2017, 7:45 AM edit delete reply
You mean TeeDee?... :-P
Sheela 17th Aug 2017, 11:12 AM edit delete reply

CeCi : "I am CeCi and I want to be your friend."
CeCi : "Will you be my friend?"
Marcus : "Erhh .. Dr Silver ? I think this ones for you."
CeCi : "Ready or not, here I come!" :)
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