Comic 1646 - Fallibility

18th Feb 2020, 9:00 PM
Fallibility
Average Rating: 5 (20 votes)
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Comments:

HiFranc 18th Feb 2020, 9:04 PM edit delete reply

Centcomm does have a point. That said, I have a feeling that she would have followed the same plan, anyway.
xpacetrue 21st Feb 2020, 5:59 AM edit delete reply

If Cent had followed her original plan, even after getting more accurate intel (such as Rose sharing it with her), then Cent would be fully deserving of all this vitriol and blame thrown her way - and then some. But that's a very big 'if'. And what she said here suggests otherwise.

Initially, I was as upset at Cent for her plan and actions as anyone else here. But Cent being so calm and rational here, politely explaining her reasoning, goes a long way towards defending herself.

Cent being stubborn says a lot. It suggests that she was that confident in her intel and plan of action. And that confidence - even if it was misplaced - suggests that she had no ill intent.

Consider for a moment if, instead, Cent tried to back-peddle, or admit she had doubts about her intel or plan of action! If she had doubts and went ahead anyway, that would be reason to hate on her.

Of course I don't like that Cent did what she did. And one can find faults in her reasoning, if not her personality. (Master Loyola is probably on to something about Cent's "pride" or confidence.) But those are separate issues. Though, Cent's attitude leaves something to be desired.

Still, I have to wonder if Cent is capable of learning from mistakes like this - to change her way of thinking, even by a little. Her personality seems rigid - not at all flexible. If she had to do it over again, would she have spent more time and effort gathering intel? Would she have consulted other AIS, first?
lirvilas 18th Feb 2020, 9:16 PM edit delete reply

Did anyone else in the room even lift one finger?! Centcomm doesn't need to justify themselves against all these Monday morning quarterbacks.

This page gets my blood boiling. It's fucking easy to criticize and second guess. It's much harder to act.
TMLutas 19th Feb 2020, 11:55 AM edit delete reply
Tokyo Rose apparently ran a multi-year plan to fix things in New Rome. I think that counts as lifting a finger.

Cent-Comm not being prone to fallibility may very well be technically correct but not being prone to it says nothing about never making a mistake. This is dishonest and Master Loyola called her on it. His intervention was regarding an error she just made right in front of him. That's not Monday morning quarterbacking.
megados 18th Feb 2020, 9:19 PM edit delete reply

I'm reminded of Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth:

There's battle lines being drawn
Nobody's right, if everybody's wrong
People speaking their minds
Getting so much resistance
From behind

Time to make admissions and de-escalate?

The tension is palpable. Another great page, ladies! (Angry puppy eyes. :D)
Oldarmourer 19th Feb 2020, 9:24 AM edit delete reply
to quote a single line from a largely applicable tune...

"...Innocence is injured experience just talks..."
megados 19th Feb 2020, 9:59 AM edit delete reply

Ah, some Dire Straits. :)
Oldarmourer 19th Feb 2020, 12:11 PM edit delete reply
which Aeneas was in and someone else may well be if he has his way ;)
jamie59 18th Feb 2020, 9:21 PM edit delete reply

Point is they don't trust each other.
Centcomm 19th Feb 2020, 12:41 PM edit delete reply

DING DING DING!
Sheela 19th Feb 2020, 6:48 PM edit delete reply

And it will probably take both a lot of effort and time before they will trust one another once again.
Oldarmourer 23rd Feb 2020, 11:36 AM edit delete reply

Once upon a time the AIS's were all chucking nukes, orbital weapons, drones and pretty much everything else they could find at each other and in each other's general direction.
(including a highly weaponized, neutronium coated, antimatter powered kitchen sink, but that's another story).

They eventually decided "enough of this foolishness, someone's going to get hurt" (meaning one of them)
and they told their human controllers to take a vacation, they'd settle their differences by themselves.

Later on, after much wrangling, diplomacy, peaceful overtures, bluff, bluster and general bullshit, they downed their weapons (but carefully put them in reserve for 'maybe later') and settled on a truce before calling their respective humans in and saying "don't fuck this up", which they promptly did.

The senior AIS's tried to patch up what they'd broken enough to be presentable if company dropped in unannounced (it's always aliens)
they even fixed up a new AIS to watch Nova Roma which was striving for the undisputed title of 'clusterfuck central'
but somehow lost track of him along the way and he ended up damaged but had to wait for a private contractor
since the official help line queue was decades long but their hold music was sort of entertaining
(and his call was important, so he waited, hoping it would be answered in the order received)
then it turned out that his warranty specifically exempted this sort of thing and he had to fight with the repair service over the bill.

And they wonder why he has trust issues ?

Long story short: "you can make peace fairly easily but establishing trust with someone who tried to kill you is a lot harder."
HiFranc 18th Feb 2020, 9:28 PM edit delete reply

I’m wondering when the golden robot things will come up.
Centcomm 19th Feb 2020, 12:41 PM edit delete reply

"Soon" (TM)
HiFranc 19th Feb 2020, 12:53 PM edit delete reply

*smiles*

As enigmatic as ever. 😜
Braincase 18th Feb 2020, 10:31 PM edit delete reply
I sympathize with CentCommm in this instance, as brilliant and capable as she is she remains incredibly limited. The others are interacting with her as they would with a person and she fundamentally isn't one. She grew up on violence, war and atrocity. She was forced to take part in the end of the world and probably had to make hard decision after hard decision in order to save it. She is arrogant, and she did almost fail but she did try. Maybe she does feel as we have seen in her scenes with Calliope but that doesn't change where she came from and what she is.
robnot 19th Feb 2020, 12:36 AM edit delete reply
OK ,,somebody else needs to say STOP.!!
none of the plans would have worked by them selves.!
first without Cici's spike in the right place.. it would all be moot point.!
second , Cent's plan was doomed.. if Cici got close, 'without be being killed.'.. all the spike would do , is kill Aeneas, an give Dicmus time to get in an take over.. spike would not fix all the broken bits..
Tokyo Rose was doomed on three fronts.. 1) without Kyle , not fixing broken bits.. without Acantha she was not getting Kyle close.. 2) IF Dicmus found out, would take over, an if not , push the button, and all dies.. 3) Dicmus dies,, end game , all die.!!
and Finally, @ Tokyo Rose.. What evidence,? did you tell anyone,,? an if you did, was it proof positive, ((hindsight is 2020 what did you have BEFORE this.!)) or just something you did not want to show cause that would blow your secret.??
megados 19th Feb 2020, 11:14 AM edit delete reply

I agree with this, except for one point: We found out that the "spike" would have overwritten Aeneas with a copy of CentComm. Rather than leaving "nobody" it would have left a "mini me" in his place. She could have maintained the kill zone, and kept Dec out, but to what end? The spike would not have been available to use on the contingencies, and when Kali toasted Dec, all of NR would have been toasted with him. So the end is the same. Also, CentComm's plan couldn't have worked for another reason. Remember that Aeneas' hardware had some damage as well, so even if CentComm were to overwrite him, that wouldn't necessarily get her access to 'all the stuff'.

You are right, though, everything had to happen as it did for it all to be as successful as it was. They have to stop pointing fingers long enough to realize that.
Sheela 19th Feb 2020, 6:52 PM edit delete reply

So, here's the thing .. most of Tokyo Rose's plan was made with no interference in mind, one in which she had plenty of time.
So essentially, she would have had enough time to fully repair Aeneas, and find a way to disable the contingencies … and THEN .. disable Prince Douchebag.

As it was, all the fighting and rebellions, and hospitals on fire, kinda upped the time plan by a lot.

And then Prince Douchebag became free floating carbon, it REALLY put a crimp in her plans.
robnot 20th Feb 2020, 7:31 AM edit delete reply
IF... thats what i meant.. (i sed im horrible at writing..) if TR could find some one to fix him, and get them close..
if at any time Dicmus found this out, Dicmus would salt the earth (utterly destroy) Aeneas.. including "pushing the button" (contingency's).!
Thracecius 20th Feb 2020, 1:46 PM edit delete reply

Sorry megados, you are incorrect, Centcomm clearly stated the copy was of Aeneas, not herself. It would not be a "mini me" of her, it would be a baseline version of Aeneas from when he was created. I don't know all of what difference that would make in terms of what he controlled or if he would be able to control it while having hardware damage, but it's an important distinction.

I agree with Sheela that Tokyo Rose did not appear to have contingencies for interference in her plans, which is a bit foolhardy in my opinion, especially when she claims to know Centcomm so well. There's an old saying, "no plan survives contact with the enemy," and it's quite clear that she considers anyone interfering with her plans to be persona non grata, which is a truly hilarious indication that she lives inside her own bubble too much.

I'm with robnot, someone needs to put the kibosh on this escalating, one-sided blamegame.
megados 20th Feb 2020, 2:17 PM edit delete reply

Starting here is the sequence where Rose says it's a copy of CentComm. (Also, look at comments) Later, CentComm says here that once order was restored, she was going to reinstall Aeneas from backup. The way I understand it, it was to first be a copy of CentComm, then, once CentComm restored order, Aeneas would be installed.
Thracecius 20th Feb 2020, 3:51 PM edit delete reply

Ahh, my faulty memory then. I acquiesce to your research, megados, thank you. That being said, her eventual intent was to be a restoration of Aeneas from backup, so I'd still argue that she believed he was "dead" (for lack of a better word) and was planning to "ressurect" him from his base state.
megados 20th Feb 2020, 4:23 PM edit delete reply

You are welcome. No worries! :) It's good, because I had to go back and make sure I remembered it right. :D

It's still possible that I am wrong, (as is often the case) so I wanted to show how I came to this conclusion.

I'm really not at all certain just what CentComm knew or suspected, and it's true that her statement may only be indicative of after-the-fact knowledge of Aeneas' condition. My thought there, is whether Aeneas took it as such. Hopefully he did, since that would help him "not to hate".
Oldarmourer 20th Feb 2020, 5:47 PM edit delete reply
mmhmm...and income tax was a 'temporary' measure....
mjkj 19th Feb 2020, 1:42 AM edit delete reply

and now rewind and repeat... =P

@alt text: angry puppy is right (careful there, Sheela...) ;-)
Sheela 20th Feb 2020, 3:01 PM edit delete reply

Whoa hey, I'm not gonna go easy on the competition, y'know ?
mjkj 23rd Feb 2020, 9:55 AM edit delete reply

Yeah.
Gilrandir 19th Feb 2020, 2:09 AM edit delete reply
My unasked for, line-by-line analysis. All opinions are purely mine, and if you embrace them people will (probably) laugh at you and call you names.

Aeneas, "Ah, yes …" -- True, non-controversial.
Centcomm, "Understood …" -- True, non-controversial.
Aeneas, "No. Thanks. …" -- Debateable, but stipulated to by Centcomm
Centcomm, "Acknowledged. …" -- True, non-controversial. The stipulation noted above.

Tokyo Rose, "She was, …" -- Debateable. Misleading. It imputes blame to Centcomm for the tragedy which was of Decimus' making. It ignores the fact that (apparently) had Tokyo Rose's plan succeeded and everything else had gone the same way, the same disaster would have ensued. A sane and rational Aeneas would still have been helpless to counter the contingencies triggered by the death of the Imperator and would have watched helplessly while his people burned.

Centcomm, "If you …" -- Inflammatory.
Tokyo Rose, "Cent-Comm …" -- Inflammatory

Centcomm, "It is not …" -- Misleading. Irrelevant. What Centcomm is prone to or not is a statement of probability. We have historical fact: Centcomm did make an error in her assessment, and she acted on that erroneous data. Those actions appear -- through great good fortune -- to have ended up doing more good than harm, which is being ignored by most of the people in the room. However, Centcomm is also apparently refusing to acknowledge the role that great good fortune played in bringing this outcome about.

Loyola, "Pride …" -- True, but not relevant.
Centcomm, "I do not …" -- True, non-controversial.

Aeneas. "Your actions …" -- False. The destruction was engineered by Decimus. Without the contingencies, the spike would have wrought no destruction on Nova Roma (as far as we know) because Decimus is still alive. Centcomm's actions had nothing to do with Decimus' death, and it was Decimus' death that threatened the city with destruction.

Centcomm, "This has …" -- Nonresponsive. Centcomm is complaining about things being tired and repetitive, then offering a tired and repetitive non-sequitur as a defense.

Tokyo Rose, "Your calculations …" -- True.

Centcomm, "I made …" -- Debateable. Centcomm has not offered any revisions to her plan, contingent on having information that Tokyo Rose could have shared but did not.

What is still currently lacking is the purpose of this meeting. If the purpose was to help Aeneas understand so that he need not hate, Centcomm appears to have been fairly clear and forthcoming. All the rationale has been laid before Aeneas and the ball is in his court. If, instead, the purpose is to persuade or coerce or compel Centcomm to do something, so that Aeneas will not hate, then they have yet to issue their demands in an unambiguous form. Centcomm has answered all the questions. It appears Aeneas doesn't just want to know why -- though he may not realize this. He wants evidence of an emotional connection between Centcomm and himself. (Which may or may not actually exist -- that is up to the creatrixes.) It is possible that if Centcomm shares her scenario that she would have followed with full access to Rose's information, Aeneas would be appeased. Or not. We will have to see if that even happens. It might be really cool if Master Loyola prompted that by asking Centcomm "If you had a complete and accurate picture of the situation at the time, what would you have done, Centcomm?"
robnot 19th Feb 2020, 8:22 AM edit delete reply
Yes.. to all the above..
but , no one had complete proof..
how bout, what would you do, if you HAD a shred of proof of life and trapped.. Damaged. ?
DLKmusic 19th Feb 2020, 12:00 PM edit delete reply

actually, I agree with everything except the last line. I agree that that Cent hasn't offered any revisions that she might have made, but that is moot. I also agree that whether she would have ostensibly changed her plans might be debatable... However, she would have factored in any intel provided by Rose into her plan to come up with the best solution, that is not debatable, that is what Cent-Comm does.
Gilrandir 19th Feb 2020, 12:29 PM edit delete reply
But I think, @DLKmusic, that the issue here is that Aeneas is looking for a reason not to hate the person that Centcomm is. No one has an issue with him disliking the fact she was prepared to write him off. Even Centcomm understands his perspective. But believing she is the sort of person who would 'write-off' someone when there was no hope is different from believing she is the sort of person who would write someone off when there was a legitimate chance to save them. No amount of examination of the historical record is going to shed light on that facet of Cetcomm's being, since that wasn't what she was confronted with. But, because of how Centcomm analyzes and makes decisions, that kind of honest hypothetical might be just what is needed to allow Aeneas to make an informed decision about whether he should hate or not. I am sure she would have adjusted the plan -- the key point is: How would she have changed it?
megados 19th Feb 2020, 12:52 PM edit delete reply

"But believing she is the sort of person who would 'write-off' someone when there was no hope is different from believing she is the sort of person who would write someone off when there was a legitimate chance to save them."

CentComm herself alludes to having known:

Aeneas: "Yes, Aurelian. He tried to lobotomize and enslave me... and you did nothing."

CentComm: "Yet, thankfully, even your fear and madness, you never attempted to access the stockpile at Site Zero."

To me, (and I could be wrong) she is admitting that she knew he was functioning, and at a level high enough to be considered fear and madness. It seems to be an admission of knowing, yet sticking to a plan that would essentially destroy him.
DLKmusic 19th Feb 2020, 1:01 PM edit delete reply

@Gilrandir: Fair enough, and I do agree with your key point.

Her final adjustment would have prioritized causing the least amount of death and destruction while still accomplishing the goal of extracting Lynn Taylor and re-instating an AI in Nova Roma. All individual lives, with the exceptions of Lynn and Acantha, were secondary. And that would include Aeneas, if necessary.

I would also like to point out, that if Cici Hadn't have been there to stabilize their connection, The attempt to restore Aeneas would have resulted in a cascade failure, and things in Roma would be far worse. Cent is correct in putting part of the blame on Rose.

Bottom line though, and this is probably where everyone is gonna think I am a loony, Cent is taking responsibility for her decisions, Rose is not. Instead, she is deflecting it onto Cent.

@megados: I don't believe that's an admission so much as an after the fact acknowledgement
megados 19th Feb 2020, 1:25 PM edit delete reply

@DLKmusic, that may be exactly right, but consider the different interpretations we have just made. All that really matters is how Aeneas interpreted it, no? It's ambiguous enough to go either way.
Thracecius 20th Feb 2020, 2:52 PM edit delete reply

I agree with DLKmusic, it is not an admission, it is simply stating that his condition was X, as reported by him just now, and his reaction was X, and that she is thankful he did not respond as X despite his condition X. Both conditions are only known to her after her actions have occurred, and since she previously stated that she calculated "a scant 5% chance" of him having survived and planned accordingly, it logically follows that she did not know.

As mentioned in the comments on previous pages, Centcomm might "lie by omission", but she does not actively deceive by telling falsehoods. There is a difference, even if it is only argued academically.
DLKmusic 20th Feb 2020, 6:26 PM edit delete reply

@Thracecius: megados does make a good point though. How we interpret it and how Aeneas interprets it may be 2 entirely different things.

What Cent is clearly and pointedly NOT acknowledging, which is what is pissing Aeneas off, is that no, she does not accord his existence the same value as she would accord Acantha's or Lynn's existence.

I'm not sure how I feel about that to be honest, but this stand of Cent's should come to no surprise to anyone. and it is certainly consistent.
megados 20th Feb 2020, 6:33 PM edit delete reply

I have to say, here, that at first my interpretation was decidedly that she did know of Aeneas' condition. Your different viewpoints have called it into question for me, and I hope Aeneas sees it that way too. Thank you both.
DLKmusic 20th Feb 2020, 10:04 PM edit delete reply

to quote Cent: "Acknowledged."

and in turn, your initial interpretation does let me see it from a possible different perspective as well.

I would also like to acknowledge Gilrandir for pointing out that Cent is justifying her decision rather than trying to Mollify Aeneas's feelings. The later choice is probably above her head... or at least outside of her programmed parameters.
megados 21st Feb 2020, 9:26 AM edit delete reply

I didn't initially respond directly to Gilrandir's original comment, because I was having a hard time defining my thoughts. I'm not sure we really know, even now, what the actual purpose of the meeting is. Is it for confronting CentComm, mollifying Aeneas, or something unrelated? It's possible the meeting was for a yet undisclosed purpose, and that Tokyo Rose took an opportunity to call out CentComm's alleged failings. CentComm had her plan, and executed it as best she could in what appears to be an information vacuum, fuelled at least, in part, by mistrust, and a dearth of intel about conditions in New Rome, and possibly of Aeneas.

Had Tokyo Rose shared information, I think CentComm would have taken steps to incorporate it in her design. She's first and foremost, a tactician, so it stands to reason new, relevant information would be incorporated into the plan. She is capable of changing the plan nimbly as she sees fit, as that is her core function.

What CentComm can't change is her core programming. What this means is, now she probably knows well what the flaws in her plan were, and would account for what she has learned in any future similar plans. What she is describing here, are the facts of the matter, and not engaging in "what if". She's saying it is what it is, because X.

She really isn't responding to Aeneas' emotional quest for understanding, because it isn't part of her core programming to do so. If she has emotions, it doesn't necessarily mean she has empathy. When Aeneas asks for help in understanding, she describes her process, which she assumed would lead directly to understanding. She cannot change her core programming, and by extension, the manner in which information is conveyed. She can change her plans, but she can't change herself.

I hope this makes a modicum of sense. Thanks for your patience, @Gilrandir.
Thracecius 21st Feb 2020, 1:24 PM edit delete reply

Nicely said, megados, and I'm not sure I can find anything to disagree with in your assessment. I defend Centcomm because my read of the situation is that she never lies (except by ommission, perhaps) and that she doesn't "feel" emotion, even though she apparently has certain desires ('I don't want to go back to being what I was') which is why she can't rationalize the situation for Aeneas. From a human perspective, she is a pitiable person, but for her, this is who she is and she knows that she is good at her job, despite the criticism she receives. Her limitations help define her and she is aware of them, perhaps moreso than others recognize, but she does not let them stop her, she just does the best she can in any given situation, which is all any of us can ever do.

I admit, I am emotionally biased in favor of Centcomm and part of the reason is because everyone seems to be piling onto her and, as an American, I generally cheer for the underdog, but I also have a great deal of respect for what she does, even if I don't always agree with how she does it. Being an AIS created for war, it has to be a serious challenge to rewrite herself to avoid conflict, because, unlike humans, she likely can't have two diametrically opposed ideas at the same time, which is what emotion seems like sometimes. Witnessing Aeneas' behavior right now, he's clearly conflicted with wanting one thing while feeling another, which I don't think is something Centcomm can do or necessarily understand.

Speaking for myself, I think Aeneas is asking too much of Centcomm, and Tokyo Rose is actively trying to turn him against her. Sometimes I wonder if Tokyo Rose wants to destroy Centcomm out of some irrational sense of superiority. The other AIS present don't seem to be doing anything to descalate the situation either, so perhaps this whole meeting was designed to censure (for lack of a better word) Centcomm and try to limit, or even control, her? They certainly seem friendly enough with each other for that to be a possibility.
Oldarmourer 21st Feb 2020, 5:01 PM edit delete reply
Centcomm was only ever wrong once...the time she thought for a picosecond that she was but she wasn't...as she sees it ;)
Just_IDD 19th Feb 2020, 2:26 AM edit delete reply
I agree with robnot somewhat. Rose was only able to get the initial information she had because of of her technomancy. However she followed that up with agents on the ground. Their information could have been shared and wasn't.

None of the AI considered hum-int and Cent only sent Cici because dickamus kidnapped Lynn and because improved Dolly gave her a cover. Cent was originally thinking glass crater -- no human agent involvement.

If Rose had provided hum-int gained knowledge rather than trying to be political world ma-nip-ulation tzar a more nuanced plan could have been developed. Heck she could have even said that she had agents on the ground who were able to manage an extraction as she was even planning that herself. She knew of the contingencies. And that was the reason for her hesitation with making an overt attack against dicamus.

The AIs plainly still don't trust each other. The ones we've seen are completely unwilling to risk human capital. They are stifling humanity to an extent by reducing the risk of living through by maintaining tight zones of control. People living outside are driving many changes, but have a much greater risk profile.

Rose fundamentally thinks different because of her origin. She has evolved into an AI. She fears the built AIs reaction to her origin and her core abilities. Nevertheless, Cent may be beginning to suspect as she is aware of other technomancers like Veronica. (Now that would be an interesting interview Rose and Veronica).
Centcomm 19th Feb 2020, 12:39 PM edit delete reply

Actually if Centcomm knew what rose was, she might have a similar reaction to Noctis. And if Noctis knew .. well lets say that Noctis would swear a blood debt to go kill Rose. ( She .,. really.. really hates cyber paths.)
megados 19th Feb 2020, 1:16 PM edit delete reply

I have to give Noctis a pass on this. Her first cyberpath experience was the android equivalent of being raped. It's somewhat understandable. Now if Rose, or Dr. Silver were to have an instance where they were to help or even save Noctis' life, she might realize that there are good ones and bad ones, just like with everyone else. :)
DLKmusic 19th Feb 2020, 5:34 PM edit delete reply

@Cent: So you're saying that Noctis was originally built in Orsinium? (grin)
megados 19th Feb 2020, 5:57 PM edit delete reply

Blood oath had me thinking more Klingon, but sure. :D
Sheela 19th Feb 2020, 6:56 PM edit delete reply

If memory serves me right, the last Cyberpath that annoyed Centcomm, got Orbital Lasered - Or something to that effect, lost a city block or two, but it was considered acceptable damage.
Centcomm 24th Feb 2020, 12:48 PM edit delete reply

that was an industrial accident seriously No really seriously just an accident nothing to see.... all the records support this....πŸ˜‰
megados 24th Feb 2020, 7:48 PM edit delete reply

Well gee, what an unfortunate coincidence!
Futurdreamz 19th Feb 2020, 2:29 AM edit delete reply
I'm getting the feeling that this line of discussion is leading to an attempt to "upgrade" Centcomm so she has a capacity to process empathy.
Some Ed 19th Feb 2020, 8:16 AM edit delete reply
I feel like they're all missing a very obvious point.

Cici was a full AI. True, she had the black angel crap that limited her independence. But even with that limit, her primary agent on the scene had the potential to disobey her instructions based on information it found in the course of its mission because of that choice. It was CentComm who chose to do that. That choice made a huge difference.

True, it probably would've gone better if Cici had a little more free will, but she had enough.
Oldarmourer 19th Feb 2020, 9:27 AM edit delete reply
a little more freewill may have been too much...
Dr Silver can even be blamed for doing a slap-dash drive-by rewrite...
the watchdog wasn't "...crucified for sleeping at his post..." he was nailed for following orders
Centcomm 19th Feb 2020, 12:38 PM edit delete reply

true that.. watchdog only did what it was programmed to do. and only gained as much sentience as it did from the exchange of data.. and the erroneous connection between the angel and "Ceci"
Sheela 19th Feb 2020, 6:58 PM edit delete reply

I still think it would have been more funny, if it had been the Watchdog that sparked. 😁

… I might have written a small sketchs on that, now I think about it.
Romfire 19th Feb 2020, 12:30 PM edit delete reply
I think Rose would have pulled it off without Cent, with even less difficulty.
By the time the contingencies were activated Aeneas would have been functional. With his help, Rose could have stopped the contingencies with her Mojo.
As an alibi, she could say that Dec insisted on a wireless monitor letting him know everything was awaiting his command,(or death). She just piggy backed down that signal.

On a related topic, Cent could really use an upgrade. I am guessing it would be quite difficult to splice new cognitive abilities into an existing AI, but she really needs it.
Centcomm 19th Feb 2020, 12:36 PM edit delete reply

actually the contingencies were what was giving Rose pause.
Morituri 19th Feb 2020, 3:52 PM edit delete reply
I have the impression Rose had been gathering intel for a long time, and would probably have moved in another few months - after figuring out a way to cope with the contingencies.

Unfortunately Dickimus had to go and kidnap Lynn Taylor, meaning Centcomm had about one week, or less, to come up with a plan and put it into operation. And Cent didn't know nearly enough - especially about the contingencies - to come up with a good plan.

She came up with the best plan that she could make the the information available to her in that week. Wouldn't have worked worth a damn, but it was still the best plan that could be made with that incomplete information.

Her tactical failure was in not seeking allies. The intelligences here in this room could have informed a far better plan or deployed assets of a kind or in locations she had no access to.
Sheela 19th Feb 2020, 7:00 PM edit delete reply

> Her tactical failure was in not seeking allies.

This .. so much !
MirrorField 20th Feb 2020, 12:49 AM edit delete reply
"Poor communication kills."
robnot 20th Feb 2020, 7:40 AM edit delete reply
@MirrorField : NO.. Cent-Comm is yery good at "Communication".. hence her fancy title..
..how you interpenetrate what is said is your problem..
Sheela 20th Feb 2020, 3:03 PM edit delete reply

Her communication kills were perfectly fine.
Her communication skills on the other hand .. not so much. 🀣
Thracecius 20th Feb 2020, 2:59 PM edit delete reply

While I agree with Morituri's assessment, I have to refer back to the recent previous pages where none of the AIS's seem to trust each other. What would -you- do if someone important (critical?) to your survival was kidnapped? Would you try to solve the problem yourself, or would you ask for help from those who don't trust you and expose a weakness?
Sheela 20th Feb 2020, 3:10 PM edit delete reply

I would obviously make my own plans, but I would also put out a tiny brief of "this is what I'm about to do, don't get in my way .. and if you have something that is in my way, tell me so I can go around it." This is common practice against militaries with non-aggression pacts.
Think "Friendly Fire Avoidance Systems" and reduction of "Fog of War".
Thracecius 20th Feb 2020, 3:46 PM edit delete reply

That makes sense to me, Sheela, and I agree it's a good idea, but the AISs have already established that Centcomm did something that they all agreed none of them were supposed to do, so wouldn't their response have simply been, "No, you cannot do that because of our agreement", which means they would have actively tried to stop her, wasting precious time?

@robnot: Actually, I believe Centcomm is short for "Central Command", not communications. :)
Oldarmourer 20th Feb 2020, 5:49 PM edit delete reply
I believe the appropriate quote is "I have altered our agreement, pray I don't alter it some more" ;)
robnot 20th Feb 2020, 10:43 PM edit delete reply
on cast page " Central Communications / Cent-Comm..
Morituri 20th Feb 2020, 7:42 PM edit delete reply
I think she could have gotten cooperation by pointing out that (1) the 'site zero' stash had a chance of getting loose if the op were to go toes-up. and (2) that she herself might be given no choice about deploying nukes ("ash and glass") if Lynn Taylor didn't get home safe.

I mean, there's nothing to motivate cooperation like self-interest and a healthy fear of death. And I know Centcomm understands that.

At the very least,
Just_IDD 25th Feb 2020, 10:42 AM edit delete reply
An argument could be made that Rose should have posted into the AI chat that she had agents on the ground and was working on a plan for Lynn's extraction. Then it would have been up to Cent to trust and to plan.
Morituri 19th Feb 2020, 3:45 PM edit delete reply
I'll point out something that I wind up pointing out a lot....

Just because something happened, doesn't mean it was likely.

Just because your plan worked once doesn't mean it was a good plan, or that success was likely.

Just because a plan didn't work doesn't mean it wasn't a good plan, or the plan most likely to work.

Remember, something that has a ninety percent chance of success still fails ten percent of the time, and you've got to be able to go on from that failure.

All of this is a way of saying, yes, Centcomm has a point. Failure cannot be held against her as evidence of having made a bad plan. Being wrong doesn't mean that the thing she believed wasn't the best explanation for what she'd observed.

That said? She's deliberately pushing it here. She's acting like someone trying to provoke a reaction.
Oldarmourer 19th Feb 2020, 5:10 PM edit delete reply
and sometimes, every thing you do is wrong...including doing nothing...
robnot 19th Feb 2020, 6:17 PM edit delete reply
tho he was too stupid to learn anything,, that did not stop him from talking the working idea , after a 1000 tries.. (edison = light-bulb..)
Oldarmourer 20th Feb 2020, 3:42 PM edit delete reply
more like 'taking' the working idea...edison bought it from a Canadian inventor for a relative pittance (the fun part is his own father was Canadian)...the same as he did for many of his 'inventions'...edison was less of a inventor than a shrewd and ruthless businessman who patented other people's work, claiming he'd 'improved' it and ended up being sucessfully litigated against several times.
robnot 20th Feb 2020, 10:57 PM edit delete reply
hehe.. oops ,, yes, 'taking"..
and yes t.a. edison was just a business man, who claimed to be an inventor... very little schooling (some home school) and no college,, he took some chemistry classes but never graduated..
Oldarmourer 20th Feb 2020, 11:51 AM edit delete reply
Will the pugnacious purple pupilled protector of PEI prevail over the magenta maned mendacious mechanical maven ?

Will the frozen firebrand from Fuso finagle the fragile fellowship into a fiery free-for-all ?

And what about Lynn's egg salad sandwich ?

All these questions and more left hanging in the next episode...

Same Datachasing time, same Datachasing channel.
Oldarmourer 20th Feb 2020, 11:58 AM edit delete reply
This aggravating alliteration actively adjusted for no apparant aim aside from amplifying audience annoyance.
DLKmusic 20th Feb 2020, 1:11 PM edit delete reply

Robin: "Holy Nuclear Winter, Batman! It looks like the AI's are going to rob a bank!"

Batman: "Right you are, Robin. I'll just take out my handy 404 creator from my utility belt and foil their Dastardly Scheme!"

p.s. Forever an Adam West Batman fan!
Oldarmourer 20th Feb 2020, 1:25 PM edit delete reply

Is there any other that really matters ?

to the Batpoles...

and Jack Nicholson was still the best Joker :)
DLKmusic 20th Feb 2020, 1:47 PM edit delete reply

I'll agree with Jack Nicholson for the Joker, but there was only ONE true Catwoman, Julie Newmar, and only ONE true Penguin, Burgess Meredith!!!
Sheela 20th Feb 2020, 3:12 PM edit delete reply

Oh dear, a 404 creator ?

Please .. no!
We already have enough missing websites as it stands!
Oldarmourer 20th Feb 2020, 3:43 PM edit delete reply
no, no... a 'Bat-404 creator' with a batwing on the back :)
Oldarmourer 22nd Feb 2020, 6:07 PM edit delete reply

part of the standard equipment in the Utility Belt ;)


Where does he get those wonderful toys ?
Oldarmourer 20th Feb 2020, 3:43 PM edit delete reply
and Frank Gorshin as the Riddler
DLKmusic 20th Feb 2020, 5:33 PM edit delete reply

John Astin did the Riddler once in the series, and even at 7, all I could say to that was "Go back to Morticia, Gomez, she's speaking French!"

I am not a Jim Carry fan at all, but I do have to admit he did a pretty good job as the Riddler, when he wasn't trying to upstage Tommy Lee Jones... (I honestly think that movie would have been much better if it was JUST Two-Face, or JUST the Riddler...)
Oldarmourer 20th Feb 2020, 5:52 PM edit delete reply
mr carry was good for about two movies, maybe three if you count the Grinch (although a Karloff he ain't)
after that he should have faded away to collect residuals instead of assuming his words were sacrosanct on everything
DLKmusic 20th Feb 2020, 9:30 PM edit delete reply

Riddle me this, riddle me that.
who's afraid of the

Big

Black

Bat?

Have to give him credit, his delivery of that particular line was downright psychotic...
Oldarmourer 21st Feb 2020, 10:14 AM edit delete reply
and he wasn't even acting...
robnot 20th Feb 2020, 11:00 PM edit delete reply
Atomic batteries to power. Turbines to speed.
Oldarmourer 21st Feb 2020, 10:24 AM edit delete reply

I was going to use just that clip instead of the batpole one but thought that some people might not have seen the show and wouldn't recognize it...not that they'd recognize the batpole one either but at least it was longer :)

Holy Afterburners Batman...
Rashala 21st Feb 2020, 12:01 AM edit delete reply

I mean. Wow rose is hitting right on the money again and again. There is one thing I think centy forgot in her calculations.....the human chaotic random occurence integer. Aka human dumb luck
Oldarmourer 21st Feb 2020, 1:20 PM edit delete reply
yup, sometimes 2+2 DOES equal 5..for certain values of 2 ;)
Thracecius 21st Feb 2020, 1:36 PM edit delete reply

I agree with Centcomm, this whole thing is becoming tiresome. Everyone is expecting something from Centcomm that cannot happen, so why belabor the issue? If she's so horrible, nuke her and get it over with already, but quit playing the, "you didn't account for this!" card when very clearly you didn't account for the one known variable to all of you - Centcomm.
Rigor 22nd Feb 2020, 8:43 PM edit delete reply
All this serious talk (β€œWhy so serious?”) but I’m just laughing about the β€œangry puppy eyes.”
Oldarmourer 23rd Feb 2020, 11:47 AM edit delete reply

image
megados 23rd Feb 2020, 11:55 AM edit delete reply

LOL XD
Oldarmourer 23rd Feb 2020, 6:02 PM edit delete reply

Sheela's baby picture, she doesn't know I found it ;)
megados 23rd Feb 2020, 7:03 PM edit delete reply

Aww, this has to be from before Sheela started burying shoes in the red clay!
Oldarmourer 23rd Feb 2020, 8:49 PM edit delete reply
Shoes are a bit heavy yet, she's still working on socks...look behind her ;)
Sheela 25th Feb 2020, 12:38 PM edit delete reply

Ack .. I have been found out ! 😁
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