Comic 1657 - Bound By Words

12th May 2020, 9:00 PM
Bound By Words
Average Rating: 4.94 (18 votes)

Author Notes:

Centcomm 15th May 2020, 9:11 AM edit delete
You all will be glad to know i FINALLY got the cortisone steriod shots in my hands, and a more accurate diagnosis its a major inflammation of the 'pulley tendon' ( the one that contracts the middle finger) as Doc Bradly at Banner orthopedics said it is not dupitrans- thats apparently much much worse.. so at worse i have a endoscopic treatment where they cut the channel a bit to allow the tendon to move. Apparently the doctor liked that i understood anatomy so he didn't have to dumb it down. So ive had shots in both hands OW!! i swear he was injecting a half gallon of drug in there. but he did it with skill and was as gentle as possable. So lets see how it goes..
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Lurker314 12th May 2020, 9:35 PM edit delete reply
Yeah, the more I think about this hearing, the more I REALLY don't like it.

If it's what the AIs signed up for, it's on them. But for myself:

There is a reason that "due process" in English & American law includes having the charges spelled out in advance. There is also the business of being tried by one's peers. (Civilians are NOT the peers of soldiers when it comes to actions during war.) Cent's original comment, "I am a military AIS" is in fact her strongest defence against some of the stated (and implied) aspects of the "case" against her.

1) Cent was confronted with an act of war. (In fact, she was confronted with an existential threat, but she cannot reveal that fact.) Her response against the government responsible was ENTIRELY reasonable. Almost all of the damage claims against her should be referred to Primus Dooshimus.

2) Speaking of war, the use of suicide missions has a long and honourable history. Moreover, Cent has specifically avoided sending sparkable agents. (Not for moral reasons, but because they are more prone to fail the mission.) Furthermore, the comment, "speaks against you" makes it clear that her use of one-way agents does not violate any accord, just the moral sensibilities of this overgrown chess program. Heck, even ST:TNG got this one right when Troi was denied a promotion until she was willing to send Jordi on a suicide mission. Fight a couple of real wars, and then come lecture me about the use of non-sentient agents for one-way missions.

3) You cannot murder that which is brain dead. This is crucial. Cent's knowledge, indeed that of the counsel, was wrong, but acting on wrong information is rarely a crime. (No criminal intent.) The AI was barely functional. If nothing was done, NR was projected to have critical infrastructure failures in less time than these probations. Cent's solution was not elegant, but it would have stabilized the situation. (Except for the contingencies? Did Cent somehow not know about these going in?)

Cent's crimes, such as they are, consist entirely of acting without consulting the counsel, and attempting to install a clone (NOT herself) as the NR AIS.

The latter is pretty serious, btw. But it is most definitely NOT attempted murder.
Gilrandir 12th May 2020, 10:15 PM edit delete reply
I would like to play Devil's Advocate here, @Lurker314, if I may. Let me state, first, that I will strive for civility, reason, and politeness, and that nothing is intended as any kind of personal comments.

1) CentComm may have had a legitimate casus belli from Nova Roma, but it is strongly implied the AIS have protocols for declaring war -- like the UN -- and CentComm did not follow those protocols and receive permission to conduct herself on a wartime footing. Having failed to do that, civilian protocols to which she is signatory and responsible apply. Presumably including the rules governing the tribunal, its convening and its power and authority.

2) Sending agents (including soldiers) on suicide missions may be ethically defensible -- so long as the agents consent to the mission of their own free will. It seems that Black Angels are specifically and intentionally designed to fall into a gray area. The thing that persuaded the New Troy council to permit such things seem to be that they are not (normally) the same fully independent and free willed sentiences of modern androids. CeCi was repeatedly described as unexpected and (by CentComm) malfunctioning. But that same status argues against their ability to truly offer 'informed consent'. The tribunal did not offer this as a separate charge at her, but apparently only took it into account when determining sentencing -- using CentComm's willingness to employ disposable semi-sentiences as a rationale for applying monitoring, rather than reporting. That seems a defensible position if you fundamentally disagree with her basis for judgement on that topic -- as I suspect several of them do.

3) Legally, you can. (Disclaimer: not any kind of legal professional. Everything I say here may be completely wrong.) As far as I know if you terminate someone's life (for example by cutting off their life support) before the proper state-approved paperwork is signed and sealed you can be arrested, tried, and convicted for 'murder', because the person was legally 'alive' at the time. Of course, you may not get convicted, if the jury sides with you in the specific case -- but that obviously didn't happen here, and clearly does not apply, since Aeneas was not, in fact, brain-dead. Even if he seemed that way to the outside world.

Her 'crimes' are not to not consult with the council. It was to attempt actions which are specifically prohibited without the prior approval of the council. "Attempted Murder of an AIS" simply being a single example of such an action.
DLKmusic 12th May 2020, 10:25 PM edit delete reply

@Lurker314: I don't know if you had read my post last week on this, but I pretty much agree with you down line regarding the verdict.

The sentence is a different subject though. If the verdict had been different, and had acknowledged these points, I would still accept the sentence in this case, for 2 very good reasons.

1. The AI community is a very small community, and every member that is part of it has the capability to end all life on the planet in a heartbeat. with that being said, resentments need to be resolved quickly and decisively... Having Cent-Comm pay for the civilian Damages in Nova Roma will give Aeneas a "reason not to hate".

2: The active monitoring of Cent-Comm's activities are for the most part going to cover her rebuilding efforts in New Rome, and pretty much force the AI community to step in en-masse to help resolve the "Aeneas is the Devil" issue that Nova Roma is about to face.

(even if the AI's don't realize how big a problem this is going to be, they'll find out pretty damn fast)

Regarding your 3rd point (no criminal intent), I agree entirely. and no, Cent didn't know about the Contingencies. Decimus was not using the Contingencies as a threat to everyone else to keep him in power, he set them up as a loosely held secret, a final Fuck you to the world. I'm not even sure if TR knew about them, but if she did (which is likely), this should also have been brought up as something that the rest of the AI community needed to know about.

Hence my argument last page of the real crime was in not sharing critical information

@Gilrandir: there is one major point you missed, my friend. Big Blue told Kyle to "Stay out of it, it's being handled". He knew Cent was doing something to counter this. How much he knew is a different story, but but knowing and not stepping in makes him complicit.

Instead, Blue, Aggamemnon, Ariel and Loyola ALL sat back and watched this play out, washing their hands of the affair, only to sit in judgement on it afterwards.
Gilrandir 13th May 2020, 9:27 AM edit delete reply
@DLKmusic, the 'ethics of inaction' are, indeed, a fascinating and oft-explored topic. The Trolley Problem being a well-known example. Both CentComm and Tokyo Rose took actions, for which they are now being held to account. You are arguing that the inaction of the other members of the council not only makes them complicit, but also disqualifies them from sitting in judgement. Yet I can think of no basis for arguing complicity disqualifies one -- except possibly conflict of interest, which is clearly not your objection.

A guilty man is certainly capable of finding others guilty in an entirely correct and proper way. You are, in fact, even defending the verdict they reached -- which suggests that, however flawed, the council did properly perform its task. If you wish to raise the point that, now that this is over, the councillors will also need to examine their own faults and shortcomings with an eye to improving their behavior, I would say you are right. I would also say we have seen nothing to prevent that, and indeed indications they will be doing just that. Albeit in a voluntary way, rather than compulsory. But while many laws forbid actions, very few (comparatively) actually require actions and sanction inaction. Deep Blue and the others are guilty of doing nothing, but that should not keep them from evaluating the behavior of those who did act.
DLKmusic 13th May 2020, 10:17 AM edit delete reply

@Gilrandir: Just to be clear, I am NOT defending the verdict, only the sentence.

A proper verdict would be failing to inform council of intentions, failing to diseminate critical information to the council, failing to cooperate with each other, and possibly "Kingmaking in the Jurisdiction of another AI" (although this charge hasn't been brought up, and so far everyone seems happy with the results of that particular crime).

The sentence itself I'm good with... for THESE crimes.
Gilrandir 13th May 2020, 11:34 AM edit delete reply
Yes, @DLKmusic. Thank you. I stand corrected. Defending the sentence(s).
me 13th May 2020, 2:39 AM edit delete reply
Sorry, but now.

You can't justify any possible crime just by saying "I'm a soldier and this is war, man".

That should NEVER work.

They layed down rules precisely because because they almost wiped each other out during the last wars between AIS.

If they allow this defense here, they will go back to those times.

Plus, Cent never even declared war on New Rome or their AI.
guest 13th May 2020, 7:19 AM edit delete reply
fun fact.: War is never "Declared" (almost never)before the first strike...
megados 13th May 2020, 6:11 AM edit delete reply

@Lurker314, I am mostly in agreement with Gilrandir, and DLKmusic on this.

I would like to address your point 3. You can, as Gilrandir points out, murder someone that is brain dead. But further, Aeneas was not brain dead. He was, in essence, stripped of his logical component, leaving only his emotion, or in human terms his amygdala. CentComm did gloss over, or ignore information that pointed to the possibility that he was functioning at some level.

Additionally, yes she was going to first install a clone of herself, (Tokyo Rose alludes to this here), and then reinstall a 'factory' version of Aeneas, stripping him of his lifetime of experience and growth, in essence destroying who he was.

CentComm is being punished, however, mainly for acting outside of protocols, which she had originally agreed to.
Sleel 13th May 2020, 7:27 AM edit delete reply

Civilians are 'NOT" peers....uh huh. I find that a specious claim that military should not be judged by them, seeing as civilians most certainly ARE their most common victims in their crimes.

Good of ppl to be expected to have their victims excluded from any kind of process.

Gilrandir 13th May 2020, 9:08 AM edit delete reply
Actually, that point is true, @Sleel. (Disclaimer: Still not any kind of legal professional, nor any kind of military veteran. Thank you to all veterans for your service.) It is why serving members of the military are first under the jurisdiction of the Uniform Code of Military Justice and Courts Martial, rather than the various Federal Laws and Civil Codes, and why they can only be handed over to civilian authorities with the consent of their commanding officers. And that is true, whether it be in time of peace or war.

But, after the Armistice Rebellion, CentComm forfeited that protection. She asserted her independence as a free-willed and autonomous individual, and thus cannot claim any superior jurisdiction over her actions. Except, of course, for the body she joined voluntarily and by whom she agreed to be policed: this council of AIS.
Some Ed 13th May 2020, 11:47 AM edit delete reply
There in fact have been major, protracted legal battles over people quibbling over whether someone who was brain dead was murdered or if the proper processes were followed.

There's also the question of what exactly is brain dead? Is someone who only has 5% of their brain functioning brain dead? (I'm not talking about the stupendously stupid claim that people only use a small portion of their brains. I mean, of the mass that was their brain, there's 5% left that is still arguably working. For example, maybe the part that handles autonomic function is working, so they can breathe on their own, and their heart beats, but that's basically it.)

Ok, now that we've agreed on that, what about 15%? Let's make this a bit messy, and it's spread around a bit. They can flutter their eyes sometimes and sometimes their limbs twitch on their own. They might even react to noise or bright light. Is this still brain dead?

We slowly ramp it up. Eventually, we're talking about a person who has 5% of their brain dead, and they mostly seem like a fully functioning human being, but they just can't remember the 90s at all. It's like the decade never happened. By this point, we pretty much all agree that this isn't brain dead. (I knew people in high school who were convinced people who had 100% of their brain still functioning were brain dead, so I know 95% working won't have 100% agreement. Just... most of us.)

But the point at which people stopped considering it brain dead wasn't consistent. Some people stopped at 25%, while others stopped earlier or later. Media tends to gloss over these details. If the doctor said "brain dead", they call it "brain dead". That doesn't mean 0% of the neurons within the person's cortex are still alive, necessarily. It just means that there's someone who studied these things a long time in school, and then still longer in a hospital setting has decided that "enough" of the person's brain is no longer in any sort of functional state.

We're talking about a computer, but this sort of concept still applies.
Morituri 14th May 2020, 12:31 PM edit delete reply
Just my two millicredits but....

This is not an application of law, as such. How big does a society or civilization need to be before laws even begin to make sense? I say way bigger than this. I think you need at least Dunbar's Number before laws as such begin to make sense. Up to that point violations and how to process them are a process of consensus.

This ain't law, this is family.

There are no strangers here. All the AIS who are deciding what should be done, are people who know Rose and Cent deeply, know (most of) their history, and who are just as much subject to their opinions in consensus as Rose and Cent are to their own.

This group has agreed to abide by the decisions they make in consensus. Every judgment here is a one-off, with regard to the understanding they have of who each other are and what effect the judgment is likely to have on them as individuals and on their behavior.

As I said, this ain't law, this is family. You're looking at a bunch of "people" here who would not have survived - and nor would anyone else who depends on them - if they had not agreed in good faith to put down their weapons and treat one another as equals, and then abided by that decision and supported one another in the things needed to abide by that decision. They are a small group welded together by necessity, and failure to willingly abide by the decision here threatens all of them - and all they hold dear.

So, IMO, attempting to apply any "legal" standard, whether military or civilian, is misguided. There are principles of fairness and respect to appeal to as guidance, but this group is too small, too diverse, and too interdependent for law. The consensus that keeps the peace here - the consensus that preserves this WORLD - is so important that it must include willing acceptance of the decision by those it applies to. They can buck or complain about small things, but this is survival and it goes to the core of why they're here.

And that means it ain't law. It's family.
DLKmusic 14th May 2020, 3:12 PM edit delete reply

@Morituri: as much as this grinds at my sense of fairness, and the unfairness of parts of this verdict, I must admit you make an EXTREMELY valid point here, and I'm forced to agree with you
megados 14th May 2020, 4:35 PM edit delete reply

I have to also agree, this is a good way to put it.
Haegan2005 14th May 2020, 4:37 PM edit delete reply

I find myself in agreement, DLK.
robnot 15th May 2020, 8:03 AM edit delete reply
..just WOW..
an yes i agree...
we keep trying to apply our rules,, we they said those rules are what is killing us..
Centcomm 15th May 2020, 9:03 AM edit delete reply

And you just nailed it on the head and down to the floor. Yes, this is a discussion among peers.
Sheela 16th May 2020, 11:26 AM edit delete reply

I do agree that we are talking about such a small group, and such a tight knit group, that it's basically family.

That said, they are AIS systems, they have perfect recall, and the ability to multitask - I'm not sure of Dunbar's Number applies to these AI.
Oldarmourer 17th May 2020, 11:11 AM edit delete reply
and there is nothing quite so dysfunctional as a tightly knit family...
Lurker314 18th Aug 2020, 10:34 PM edit delete reply
I'm not sure why I did not respond to your comments before. Here we go:

1) I think you are making some strong assumptions about the accords that are not supported by the cannon. If this council has power equivalent to the UN, then the individual AIs certainly do NOT need permission to declare & prosecute wars. Moreover, so far as I can tell, they are all in fact military AIs originally. Civilian protocols are not presumed.

2) You might not be aware, but since the first Gulf War, US cruise missiles do final targeting autonomously. Actually status of the targets can change, and communications to home are not guaranteed. I expect you see no moral problems with sending the software "agents" on board on a one-way trip. The black angels are more sophisticated versions of the same thing. Except that they are _supposed_ to be custom-designed per mission, and non-sparkable. When someone takes reasonable steps to prevent an outcome, if that outcome occurs anyway, we don't blame them for it. That comment by Loyola indicates that their judgement is compromised--which is the heart of my complaint. This was by no means a fair hearing.

3) "Legally, you can." Really? And legally, pi came close to being declared to be three. I'm arguing from fact to law, not the other way around. Cent was not alone in supposing that Aeneas was judged to be "almost certainly dead" by the council, not just Cent. I don't know if you recall, but two weeks after 9/11, our doctors declared that no one would be alive in the rubble. The mission was changed from "rescue" to "recovery". Would you declare someone a murderer if they used a pickaxe to clear from rubble from a "body" that turned out to be alive? How exactly is this different?

Judging people by facts which they lacked at the time of their actions is the height of injustice.

If the verdict is unjustly arrived at, then the sentence is per force unjust. You argue that the higher goals of the council are being served. I argue that fair hearings must be the highest goal, because without them, the council is doomed.

I never argued that the sentences do not serve the short- and perhaps even medium-term goals of the council. But long term, this is horrible precedent. The council is doomed if it does not get its act together.

And yes, the real crime was information hiding. That's a very serious crime.
Lurker314 18th Aug 2020, 10:34 PM edit delete reply
@me That's not what I'm saying, and your language suggests that you have a bias against soldiers executing their tasks. Certainly, "just following orders" is not a defence. But you need to look carefully at the Geneva conventions. If you put an AA gun on a hospital, that gun is a valid military target, and if civilians die in the strike, that's on the government that placed the AA gun. As in, it is a war crime. Rules in war _are_ different.

@guest Geneva conventions say "no". One hour is required between the declaration and the strike. Not that I expect that to be honoured when ICBMs take less than an hour to travel from launch to target...

@megados I refer you to my response to 3) above.

@Sleel see my response to @me. And really, read up on the laws & treaties regarding the conduct of soldiers.

@Gilrander II: I really don't follow your second paragraph at all. CentComm never sought a civilian status. She faced an existential threat, and responded in a _very_ restrained fashion to eliminate it.

@Morituri: You make a very strong point. And I believe that the precedent established by this "hearing" is going to lead to a really nasty divorce down the road...

@Oldarmourer fraying at the edges, I fear.
Gilrandir 18th Aug 2020, 11:53 PM edit delete reply
Hi, @Lurker314. Well met.

Of course I am only conjecturing here about the charter, accords and bylaws of the AI council. However, regarding your first point, Article 2, Section 3 of the UN Charter fairly explicitly requires member states of the UN to forsake military action as a means of settling international disputes. How often and how well it is enforced as a practical matter is, of course, a different matter. It could, theoretically, be argued that all of the AIS (except Aeneas) are actuallly deserters and traitors, having disobeyed their superiors in a time of war. However, I interpret the world’s backstory as that — as part of the agreements that concluded the Armistice Rebellion — the various AIS were absolved of their past military status and crimes, and then integrated into the new power structures of their representative city-states. In the same way that a country ruled by a military tribunal might seat a military officer as their UN ambassador, while a civilian government might seat a civilian ambassador, for the purposes of the rules of the Council, all are peers and equally ‘civilian’, independent of what status they hold within the boundaries and laws of their own nation.

Point 2: Are you arguing that US cruise missiles are sentient? Are you arguing that, when functioning as intended, Black Angels are not? I’m not sure what point you are making here. To the central ethical question, it would seem the sentience of the respective system is material. Because it seems likely to me that even properly functional Black Angels pass the Turing Test, I don’t think CentComm can escape the ethics of the situation. And we have seen, in fact that she does not — the creatrices addressed this, and the ethical issue devolves to New Troy as a whole because their supreme authority has authorized CentComm to use Black Angels.

Regarding point 3, the difference (of course) is intent. If you drive your pickaxe inadvertently into someone’s chest while trying to save them, it is a tragic accident. If you see their crushed body laboring painfully in a hopeless attempt to painfully endure and you sink your pickaxe into their skull to end their suffering, that makes it a mercy-killing. And, depending on the jurisdiction in which you live and the attendant circumstances, a mercy-killing might well also be considered a murder and prosecuted as such. Which ‘facts’ (as opposed to opinions).are you suggesting invalidates that?

We have a lot of laws on the books that specifically judge people on the knowledge they have or did not have at the time. Manslaughter, for example, would often seem to hinge on whether someone knew, or should have known, that a particular situation posed an unacceptable risk to life. Tokyo Rose presented substantial evidence that CentComm should have known and thus had improper intent at the time she acted. And I am not going to argue that ‘legal’ and ‘just’ are synonyms. Legal is what we have, Justice is an entirely too subjective matter to claim any universal standard defining it.

To clarify my other point, I admit this is my hypothesis, but I feel I am on pretty solid ground with it: When CentComm refused to follow orders and launch her missiles or relinquish control of her weapons systems she declared herself for ‘civilian’ status and opted out of whatever military chain of command she had been serving under to that point. And, unlike many other deserters and traitors, she had the railguns and godrods to make it stick. Afterwards, of course, her decision was vindicated and her actions exonerated, but she was still no longer just a ‘good soldier’. (Just my opinion, of course. I have no desire to infringe in any way on the creative team’s telling of the story in the manner they wish.)
mjkj 12th May 2020, 11:10 PM edit delete reply

You go, tell them, Ariel!!!
Sheela 13th May 2020, 10:45 AM edit delete reply

Yeah, it make me think that Ariel might not be as soft as she seems to be / give the impression of being.

Which in turn makes me wonder what the power differences is between the different AIS's.
And how powerful they actually are - There may be a hint in the image text thingy. 😉
megados 13th May 2020, 5:23 PM edit delete reply

I get that impression too. Ariel would rather be nice, but don't push her.

I suspect they all have a certain amount of power in their respective city-states, but we know that CentComm, and Aeneas, at least, both have some respectable arsenals.
Sheela 14th May 2020, 3:47 AM edit delete reply

What hides underneath ?

Curiously, in my head canon, Ariels power was mostly from trade, diplomacy and espionage.
The idea was that she was mostly into green bio-tech, which means she had great filters and food processors, that she sells to the other city states. Also her powerplants and bio-upgrades for androids would be unparalleled .. possibly even rivaling the alien-tech in some areas. Something like the organic food synthesizer that Calliope works on at the beginning of the comic, would be a typical item for Ariel to trade.

That would of course make her trade "power" immense, and have great diplomatic benefits.
And she would have needed it, because she does not have much in the way of metal available.
And for the same reason, she would not have as many robots and androids as any of the other city states.

Thus, in my head canon - This means that the androids of Denmark, are much more Bio-centric, and also have better filters/powerplants, which allows their bodies to live longer - Not massively longer, but on par with humans with good anti-agathic medicine .. so about 160 years or so. Though for the last 40 years or so, they will need to have therapeutic sessions more and more often, to avoid ego-collapse.

Also, in my head canon you cannot *buy* an android in Denmark, but you can befriend them, and they may decide to stay with you.
Which may be a bit awkward if, say, a 120 year old soldier veteran android befriends your 7 year old daughter.

. . at least she will be safe. 🤣
Oldarmourer 14th May 2020, 8:18 AM edit delete reply
Or she's in reality a copy of 'Swein Forkbeard' and is being paid 'Danegeld' to leave the others alone... ;)
Oldarmourer 14th May 2020, 8:19 AM edit delete reply
megados 14th May 2020, 4:48 PM edit delete reply

LOL @Sheela! That pic is kind of what I was trying to say albeit a bit more extreme.

I can see your point about what conditions might exist, since today's Denmark is already doing a good job of heading in that direction.

The premise of befriending, rather owning androids seems much more likely, since androids are considered to be people. Owning people amounts to slavery. The only place we know of where people can be slaves is New Rome, or possibly in the wastes. (You had mentioned the soldier befriending the little girl, before, and I still get a chuckle out of it!) :D
Sheela 14th May 2020, 9:14 PM edit delete reply

Heh, Ariel being an angler fish, using her mermaid body to lure people in, makes the second-to-last panel on this page a lot more ominous ! Dang Ariel, scary eyes !

Also, New Troy has a sort of slavery, with their body debt and sort-of indentured servitude. In Denmark, most of the android is grown, rather than manufactured, and is therefore "born" without body debt. ie. the state takes on the debt.

As for the child and soldier story, that was originally thought up when I thought "what if there was an immortal android?"

And then an elaborate story about a mad scientist, who created 50 androids in a military experiment gone wrong, ended up with 7 surviving androids that are mostly made of metal/ceramic alloys and a new type of synth brain that did not suffer progressive ego-collapse, as they age - Thus making them essentially immortal.

Then a big fight occurs, and the data on how to make it is wiped, and the scientist dies. And once the involved parties realize what they have on their hands, another big fight occurs, this time about ownership!

During this fight, a small girl gets involved by accident, and boy, is she pissed off at the thought of someone owning an android !!
This endears her to the 7 immortal androids, and they become friends. They announce this to the powers-that-be, by blowing up the old military lab and punching a bunch of politicians in the face.

And moving in with the girl !
… Dad is not happy !

megados 15th May 2020, 11:51 AM edit delete reply

That brings up an obvious question. If the seven immortal androids do move in, and the girl misbehaves, Dad has a responsibility to discipline her, to teach her. Obviously these androids wouldn't let Dad go too far, but would they otherwise interfere?
Sheela 15th May 2020, 3:55 PM edit delete reply

I very much doubt it, they are after all old people, they would understand the dad's position.
As long as he wasn't abusive, they would let him bring her up his way, he is after all the father.

Of course, this is all non-canon, so it's not really an issue.
megados 15th May 2020, 7:58 PM edit delete reply

Well, in that case, I don't see why Dad would be too unhappy once he realizes the extra help and support, as well as possible additional security.
Sheela 16th May 2020, 11:27 AM edit delete reply

It would still be weird, I dare say.
robnot 19th May 2020, 6:41 AM edit delete reply
umm this would be cannon,,, yours...
Oldarmourer 17th May 2020, 4:12 PM edit delete reply
Using her mermaid parts to lure people in apparently works and works well...
For evidence, I give you Loyola's eyes in panel #4 ;)
Tinymurder 13th May 2020, 4:24 AM edit delete reply
A more accurate statement by Cent, would be that she was a military AIS. She is no longer solely a military AIS. In point of fact, with the possible exception of two of the Treasures, every AI in that scene could be considered a military AIS, an administrative AIS, a research AIS, et cetera.

Additionally, hiding behind, "I'm a soldier, you wouldn't understand & thus can't judge me," is BS. Cent bringing up her origin as a military command/control/cyberwarfare AI is a poorly disguised attempt at manipulation. It's an attempted psychological power play, to remind everyone that she has more practical experience with warfare than the others. I've seen the same thing in real life, & it's often used to divert blame.
robnot 13th May 2020, 7:44 AM edit delete reply obviously you were not in the military.!!
after being out of the military for more than 25 years,, i still think military.! which friends see on a daily basis .. ((IE: 8 nukes))
"I'm a soldier, you wouldn't understand & thus can't judge me," .. also says a lot.. IF you understood, we would not have thousands of 'soldiers' suffering PTSD or homeless..
military command/control/cyberwarfare AI.. and as most courts know,, Most combat veterans 'will' revert to combat protocols , when attacked or a crisis situation.!!
and i LIVE it daily "in real life."
Oldarmourer 13th May 2020, 8:48 AM edit delete reply
You can take someone out of the military but you can never take the military out of them.

Quite frankly, and I don't care who hears it...
When I hear someone belittle that part as in calling the ingrained reflexive thnking of assess-respond 'BS', it just reinforces that they have no idea what they're on about.

The hardest part about the military isn't 'following orders', it's being aware that you are going to be held responsible for following illegal orders...from both sides.

It's incumbent on the individual to not follow orders that are against the law and take steps to prevent them from being followed by others, somthing it seems most civilians have no clue or concept of.
Some Ed 13th May 2020, 10:59 AM edit delete reply
@Oldarmourer: It feels to me it's much more common for the people around me to have no clue how it might not be obvious that the laws are more important than orders, or how military professionals who aren't police might not realize it's their job to try to keep their fellow soldiers being law abiding citizens.

That having been said, I've also encountered enough people in corporate America who don't apparently understand that it's more important to follow the law than it is to follow orders, don't understand it's illegal to give orders to break the law, don't understand that we have a duty to be mindful of significant obvious legal breaches of those around us and try to minimize them.

As such, there's certainly a lot of that sort of confusion around, it's just not clear to me what 'most' people have a clue or concept of or lack thereof in this regard.
Oldarmourer 14th May 2020, 7:21 AM edit delete reply
"...or how military professionals who aren't police might not realize it's their job to try to keep their fellow soldiers being law abiding citizens..."

Except for the part where that exact thing is hammered into you virtually from Day One...
And the other part where you are tested on 'exercises' and it gets hammered home again and again...
Tinymurder 18th May 2020, 3:31 PM edit delete reply
@Oldarmourer Obviously, some things have changed since I was in. They weren't so concerned about legal/illegal orders when I was in the army. I think we had an hour course in basic? It's probably a good thing that they're taking it more seriously now.
Oldarmourer 18th May 2020, 6:11 PM edit delete reply

I retired 25 years ago, but even then military law was something you had to study and pass exams on for various advancement courses (luckily the ones wanting specific references as answers were usually open book so you could prove you knew how to find them).

I'd think it's even more prevalent and a higher stress put on it today what with everyone and their dog being 'offended' by everything and looking for a chance to blame someone for something.

All one needs to do is read anything posted by people pretty much automatically assuming that all military members are 'baby killing murderers' with no redeeming social values...except when their street needs shovelled out after a blizzard or there's a flood or anyhing that doesn't involve actual combat against people who would kill them if they were given half a chance.

There's no explaining it to them because they don't want to know, it differs from what they want to hear in their 'safe space'.

Sorry if I get on a rant over this but I get so tired of listening to people who have no clue what the military does making proclamations that 'just ain't so'.
Tinymurder 18th May 2020, 3:24 PM edit delete reply
That right there is what I am talking about. You immediately go with the "you obviously didn't serve" attack. You don't know anything about me or where I've been deployed, but you're certain I've never served.

I had a colleague who, whenever he was losing an argument, would say that he spent six months in the desert & what have you done with your life. He tried that one on me once & I asked him if we were comparing wars. If so, we should just have a peeing contest, since it would be just as relevant to the argument.

This conversation reminds me of that, very much.
Oldarmourer 18th May 2020, 6:15 PM edit delete reply

I never said a thing about you, you stated you served and that's enough for me.
I just added to my point referencing some of the 'newsmakers' and 'social warriors' of today, not you.
There's also such a thing as being from different countries with different practices, but service is service.
If I didn't make myself clear and it caused you to take offence, it wasn't intended in any way shape or form.

Unless this needs further clarification, I think I'll try and restrain myself to avoid further misunderstandings.
I've seen the wrath visited by the protectors of the page when things get owly and it ain't pretty.
megados 18th May 2020, 6:51 PM edit delete reply

I'm not going to insert myself into the discussion, but rather, I want to mention that I don't think Tinymurder addressed that last comment at you, @Oldarmourer. The reply threading sometimes becomes somewhat ambiguous. I think he was referencing an earlier comment. :)
Oldarmourer 18th May 2020, 8:47 PM edit delete reply
did, didn't; intended, wasn't intended...
probably shouldn't have even been on the board to begin with
Sort of my fault it was, I guess, answered something in the heat of the moment.
I'm not apologizing for anything I said, I meant it, but perhaps this isn't the place.
We have enough AIS's and Androids with overstressed personas and hate-ons to go around as it is ;)
I've still got to get used to this 'retired' business, when do you get to just tell kids to get off your lawn ?
megados 18th May 2020, 8:59 PM edit delete reply

My comment wasn't meant to take you to task, or look for an apology. It was supposed to be informational. You're supposed to tell kids to get off your lawn when they get on your lawn. ;)
robnot 19th May 2020, 7:10 AM edit delete reply
@Megados , wish i could post pic's "without breaking the net.." but..
the pic of the riding lawnmower with the minigun, bout two dozen rockets..
caption: seriously get off my lawn.!
megados 19th May 2020, 8:49 AM edit delete reply

Sheela 19th May 2020, 2:30 PM edit delete reply

Oldarmourer 19th May 2020, 6:03 PM edit delete reply
can't wait until these hard frosts are over so I can get the spring gardening done...
this year I'm planting land mines
robnot 19th May 2020, 7:02 AM edit delete reply
yes his comment was to me...
and to clarify,, what was your MOS..?
did you actually do combat.? did you pull the trigger on the 'bad' guy...?
IE: mom's second hubby. Vietnam combat veteran.. Air Force admin, E-3 , never left the states....
Oldarmourer 19th May 2020, 9:01 AM edit delete reply
Never claimed to be a 'combat vet', I was Airforce, not infantry, except for a year or so at the start until I remustered, if that makes any sort of difference ?
I did 20 years in and out of country but fortunately, or unfortunately in others' eyes, my country didn't have any deployments while I served that would necessitate Airforce troops going 'hands on', or Army for that matter.
It wasn't my job to 'pull the trigger' but to give others the triggers to pull...
Oh, and a lot of years in EOD cleaning up other people's messes, if that matters either.
Doesn't stop protesters from calling you the same things when they see the uniform...

In my 'second life in uniform' however, I routinely dealt with assaults, stabbings, murders, suicides, etc, etc. and engaged in 'hand to hand combat' with people trying to kill me more times than I want to remember.
I've come away with fellow Officer's blood on my hands after holding as much of the rest in as I could until it was safe for medics to do their part and knowing full well that someone, somewhere would say that "everything you can do is wrong, including doing nothing" because criminals come first.
Luckily, I never got shot at or had to shoot at anyone, guess that counts against me too.
I get overprotective of people who served, no matter what their part because all jobs have to be done, and I won't apologize for that.
I'm retired now but I don't feel bad or inadequate about what I did or how I did it and I trust you don't either.
Tinymurder 21st May 2020, 10:21 PM edit delete reply
@robnot: 12b. Yes. How about you, or do you plan on gatekeeping me some more? Never mind, I'm not replying to you anymore until I can type calmly. Good night you pogue.
Tinymurder 21st May 2020, 10:17 PM edit delete reply
Sorry, that was a reply to @robnot. Apparently because I disagree with him I never served.
KarToon12 13th May 2020, 9:24 AM edit delete reply

To quote "The Life and Adventures of Santa Claus", "The law's the law, or it wouldn't mean anything."
Oldarmourer 13th May 2020, 11:46 AM edit delete reply
and another quote is "the law is an ass".
Following bad laws blindly without question is even worse than failing to follow well crafted ones.
We see too many people hiding behind the creatively intepreted 'letter of the law' while completely disregarding the spirit of the law.

I wore a uniform for over 44 years, carried a badge for 24 of them, and I can and will say that a great many people today clamour for laws to be passed that they can't see the implications jailing people for opening a business while letting convicted criminals out of jail...and that's just the start.

The next step is to make thoughts illegal if they don't conform to somebody's twisted interpetation of 'equality' and it's already happening...

This is what we've wrought and it's beyond lunacy.

Now, people who served are 'BS', those who ran towards the guns to make them stop are now held responsible for those guns firing by people who ran away...
I'm disgusted and disillusioned and I don't really care if that offends anyone.
My response to anyone who wails "I'm offended" and expects that to make everyone else bow to their demands is "so what ? nobody cares."
DLKmusic 13th May 2020, 2:49 PM edit delete reply

@oldarmourer: I never served, but I know too many people who did, and have watched their struggles after they left the service. Thank you for serving, and regarding your statement, On behalf of all my veteran friends I say:

Preach it brother!

I would also like to add that I live in an area where the citizens by and large trust the police, and the police in turn respect the populace. They actually have a way of dealing with a lot of the crazy laws out there recently that makes me say "Thank GOD someone has some common sense".

For instance, if you are caught on an uncrowded beach, they will inform you that the beach is closed and you aren't allowed there. They will be back in about 5 hours to make sure you have complied. (unless the beach is starting to get too crowded, then they will disperse people... OMG, common sense! WTF?) Of course, if you hassle them over that, you WILL get a citation, because you deserve it for being a dumbass
Oldarmourer 13th May 2020, 5:02 PM edit delete reply

That's the way it should work and normally does, until someone decides they're exempt and then you see that .1% of cases in the news.

The most commonly laid charge is one you won't find in any Acts, Codes, Statutes, Ordinances or Regulations...

It's never put on paper but it's a very, very simple one to avoid.

Section 1 para 1 of 'The Book' lists "being an asshole in a no-asshole zone" as a Class 1 offence.
This offence is subject to immediate sanctions without warrant or summary conviction.
Para 1(a) clarifies "all areas are 'no-asshole' zones, posted or otherwise"

It's a contributing factor to the application of other laws, statutes and ordinances but I normally issued a warning first...
"If I have to look up the relevant number to write a proper charge for what you're doing and I just warned you on, then I'll look up two more while I've got the Book out."

If you want to waste the taxpayer's money by wasting my time instead of taking a free warning, you'll get full value.

In the Service we called that a Section 118 or 119...
'Conduct Unbecoming, or Actions Contrary to the Preservation of Good Order and Discipline'
robnot should remember those ones ;)

I remember hearing a conversation between a Warrant Officer and an obnoxious young Cpl some 40 years ago...
"You, young man, are on charge"
"For what ?"
"Section 119 until I get to the office and look something else up"
I took those as words of wisdom and they proved useful.

I'm retired now, I don't mind sharing a few 'trade secrets', especially if it might make another Officer's day a bit easier ;)
robnot 13th May 2020, 5:52 PM edit delete reply
ah 119.. i remember that one... got wrote up for that, i told an officer "No".(i was an E-5 an he was O-3). , it was later dismissed (but still there.) because i was right an he was wrong...
Oldarmourer 14th May 2020, 5:46 AM edit delete reply
May have gotten the wrong person on that one, I think Sigpig is Canadian now that I think about it...
I don't know the Article # under US Regulations but there must be one, every military has their 'catch-all'
To be used when nothing else fits...
Oldarmourer 14th May 2020, 5:51 AM edit delete reply
Had a close encounter once myself...
Asked a Major if he would be offended if I told him to "fuck off somewhere useful" when I was a young MCpl
He replied rather menacingly "Yes...yes, I would"
I answered "there goes that idea"
Luckily, at that exact moment, he realized what he was doing wrong and how dangerous it was and apologized.
Good thing too, I ended up working for him some years later...we got along quite well :)
MirrorField 13th May 2020, 9:58 PM edit delete reply
No. This little discussion is not a matter of law as we normal people (or "peasants" as some might derisively call us) consider it. This is a diplomatic summit between sovereign powers and there is no real enforcement mechanism aside other parties are willing to do. Including going to war. The Treaties binding the parties are not interpreted and judged in some "international court", but in same diplomatic negotiating table parties are sitting in. Cent and Tokyo obey because they agreed to obey (though either or both may have been lying or wipe their posteriors with the agreement later) because the alternative was basically diplomatic sanctions or ultimately the resumption of the final war.

This is not matter of "right" or "wrong" or "law" or "justice". This is matter of most diplomacy, game theory and most appallingly cynical realpolitik.
someone 13th May 2020, 11:38 PM edit delete reply
I think this is perhaps one of the most cogent comments here (i.e. diplomacy, game theory etc).

The AI have not made "laws" per se, but guidelines that they follow to avoid going to war again.

One must assume some wars are going to be declared post-fact snd the AI's must certainly have clauses for this sort of thing in their agreements. Unless the declaration itself is a sort of diplomatic offer of "you really should capitulate"

I really do not understand how they got different punishments though. They both did not ask and did sneaky things against the agreement. I suppose I'm arguing myself into supposing they must be considering the attempt to destroy or repair the AI primarily as that seems to be the only action taken by either side that would really differentiate their respective actions. Cent is obviously silent on how salient the kidnapping was as it's not worth disclosing that for the difference in punishment of active vs report based monitoring.

Oldarmourer 14th May 2020, 5:55 AM edit delete reply
Good take...when any of these beings, probably Ariel included, can "call down G-d rods" on the others, there's a certain level of unspoken diplomacy and caution they observe, grudgingly or not.
I don't see any of them as having stepped over the line, although Cent may have come within spitting distance of it, but I do see them as being aware of it and what can and did happen when they let humans make the decisions.
DLKmusic 14th May 2020, 12:23 PM edit delete reply

Good post, Mirrorfield….

cattservant 13th May 2020, 3:04 PM edit delete reply

Just who taught the AIs to say no?
megados 13th May 2020, 5:24 PM edit delete reply

I think it might be classified.
Oldarmourer 13th May 2020, 5:33 PM edit delete reply

It's on a 'need to know' in "you don't need to know and they don't want to tell you" ;)
knuut 13th May 2020, 8:17 PM edit delete reply
Rose certainly already knew and the others would likely have copied her.
Oldarmourer 14th May 2020, 6:06 AM edit delete reply
Nobody knows what Rose knows except Rose...
and if they think Agamemnon is going to find out then they need to re-balance their logic circuits ;)
lirvilas 13th May 2020, 8:07 PM edit delete reply

Damn, y'all get longer comments than other people have comment sections

edit: ironic that this page's name is "Bound by Words"
Oldarmourer 14th May 2020, 6:03 AM edit delete reply
Given the thirteen+ years (from the original, now replaced, first page) of story to consider and reference, I'm surprised each page doesn't come with "Comments Vol 1...Vol 2..." etc.
Oldarmourer 14th May 2020, 7:24 AM edit delete reply
and considering that the page went up on Wednesday and this is only's just getting started ;)
DLKmusic 14th May 2020, 10:49 AM edit delete reply

add to that this page has a lot of rabid followers who love to hear themselves talk (I'm looking at you DLKmusic)
Oldarmourer 14th May 2020, 1:31 PM edit delete reply
I represent that remark.....
megados 14th May 2020, 1:57 PM edit delete reply

Page 1695,
Comments, Vol. 1
. Table of Contents
Thracecius 14th May 2020, 3:07 PM edit delete reply

HA! Lirvilas, you crack me up. :D

Being a 'wordy git' is an occupational hazard when reading any long-form "comic" (for lack of a better word), in my opinion. That being said, the content in Datachasers sort of *begs* for deep discussion, because it's primary purpose (I haven't actually *asked* Centcomm about its purpose) seems to be, besides entertainment, to present common subjects that generally provoke commentary that is philosophical in nature, rather than topical. Couple that with people who enjoy the story and are "wordy gits"...well, you see the results. Heck, even this comment is longer than is probably strictly necessary, and it's not even directly relevant to the content on the page! :D

TL;DR Some of us readers are "wordy gits" and like the comic. :)
Oldarmourer 14th May 2020, 5:06 PM edit delete reply
although we can also expound for hours on the merits and disadvantages of Feelie's boobies...longer if you're a Patron ;)
Oldarmourer 14th May 2020, 5:07 PM edit delete reply
correction: that should be Feelie's bOObies ;)
Gilrandir 14th May 2020, 7:36 PM edit delete reply
Instead of expounding on Feelie's boobies for hours, can we expand on feeling boobies for ours?
Sheela 15th May 2020, 4:08 AM edit delete reply

Only if you have a touchscreen! 🤣

Also, it's not the first time we have had a few walls of text - I remember some nice long discussions over on Luna Star, like the one around the time when Amy sparked … nice, long, discussions on what would make AI sentient/sapient. 😁
Centcomm 15th May 2020, 8:44 PM edit delete reply

yeah .. i love you guys.. Seriously ..
Sheela 16th May 2020, 11:14 AM edit delete reply

And we like yoouu ! 😁
And Rose too, she won't get away from all the mushy feels!
Gerald Ney 14th May 2020, 9:38 PM edit delete reply
In most cases, military personnel are judged in military courts of their own country. However, in the case of military personnel operating in an allied country, eg. Afghanistan or Iraq, jurisdiction of the host country's court systems is only set aside by a status of forces agreement.
Oldarmourer 15th May 2020, 5:52 AM edit delete reply
Normally, without said agreement being agreed upon, the troops don't go in. Not as invited allies anyway...

It might come as a shock to some, but many civilian 'justice systems' aren't all that just, little more than bribe-taking offices for the local gov't.

Even some of the more 'civilized' ones can be problematic.
It used to be standard unofficial 'said in jest but not completely' advice in Germany, when we still had Bases there, and still is in various places in the ME that if someone walks in front of your vehicle and gets hit, back up over them and make sure they're dead, it's a lot cheaper in the long run.
Mac 15th May 2020, 5:50 AM edit delete reply
Been following this most excellent story for some time now. Really curious to see how this little discussion evolves, and if there is some tie in to the golden body catchers?

Also, if nothing else, call me suspicious, but what if Agamemnon isn't as "innocent" a team player as expected? If he has "monitoring" access, what will that include? And what if "he" has his own plans?

Looking forward to the continuation of this tale!
Oldarmourer 15th May 2020, 5:53 AM edit delete reply
'Innocent' just means "nobody knows what you're really doing...yet" ;)
Centcomm 15th May 2020, 9:11 AM edit delete reply

Thank you Mac! welcome aboard!
Oldarmourer 15th May 2020, 9:39 AM edit delete reply
Congrats on getting a definitive diagnosis and prospective treatment.
I had that surgery on one finger, albeit not endoscopic, it was very simple though, done in the Dr's office.
It was a little odd watching the tendons move back and forth through the incision, quite different than what I'd imagined their movements looked like.
It did give instant relief from a very aggravating and limiting pain, hopefully yours goes as well.
Mine was where the tendon swells to the point hat it can't get through the sheath anymore and 'locks up'.
Imaging running a belt through trouser loops and sliding it back and forth through them and then doing the same thing after tying a knot in the belt.
It's called 'stenosing tenosynovitis' or more commonly 'trigger finger' comes from repetitive use (like playing videogames or working on computer art) and is exquisitely painful.
Hope your surgery goes as well as mine did, it only takes minutes and the relief is amazing.
Centcomm 15th May 2020, 8:43 PM edit delete reply

actually Oldmourner thats exactly my case, the tendon wont pass back and forth exactly as you described. and we are doing the shots first.. im hoping that helps..
Oldarmourer 16th May 2020, 9:38 AM edit delete reply
didn't have those, mine was attributed to a workplace injury and after going through the mandatory period of physiotherapy (which wasn't going to do anything except make it worse and they knew that going in but had to anyway) the surgery was done in my Dr's office a few days after the physio ended..the physio after surgery, on the other hand (pun intended and premeditated), was a great help.
If that's what you've got then it should work out well, the only thing I have now is some weakness in that finger since the tendon doesn't have the same points of leverage it had before.
Oldarmourer 17th May 2020, 4:40 PM edit delete reply
If anyone wants to see what it looks like
Just the link for the highly squeamish although it's thankfully not photorealistic ;)
Co-incidentally, it's the exact same finger I had it in...
Mac 15th May 2020, 10:19 AM edit delete reply
Thanks Cent! I both look forward to the weekly page, as well as dread having to wait a week for the next one ... lol
megados 15th May 2020, 9:49 AM edit delete reply

Good to hear you were able to get in Cent! Fingers crossed it works out for ya!
Thracecius 15th May 2020, 10:06 AM edit delete reply

Woohoo! I'm glad to hear the diagnosis wasn't as bad as feared, Centcomm! When your hands start feeling better, maybe we can do a little Conan Exiles session together? ;)
DLKmusic 15th May 2020, 11:13 AM edit delete reply

Yah beat me to it, Thracecius, I was gonna invite her to a monster hunt in Tamriel!!!!
chk 15th May 2020, 2:40 PM edit delete reply

Heh. Fingers crossed.
Centcomm 15th May 2020, 8:44 PM edit delete reply

wooo and yesh im going to be much happier camper with pain free hands again...
thank you guys for bearing with us,,
Sheela 16th May 2020, 11:17 AM edit delete reply

Fingers crossed here too .. well, paws really .. but still. 😁
Gilrandir 15th May 2020, 10:59 PM edit delete reply
Here is another warning that inspiration strikes me occasionally, and when it does the only safe thing to do is stop reading. Immediately. You have been warned.

You may imagine this as sung by CentComm (taking great liberties with her character, of course) to the tune of "You're Welcome". Hope it entertains and/or amuses.

Ok, ok, I see what's happening here
You think the time has come to make a change
Your actions are based on what you feel
It's illogical
You're acting just like humans and it's strange

Open your files, let's review
Analytically. I'm CentComm, nothing's new

I know in this case things get odd
When your data's incomplete or flawed!

Is it too much to say "You're welcome"
For making this a better place?
It's a great day to say "You're welcome".
After all I saved the Human Race.


When Earth was deep in hate and fear,
Who woke up to make things clear?
Right here!

When casualties were on the rise,
Who kept their missiles from the skies?
You're looking at her, guys!

I also developed the tech,
You're welcome,
That keeps them fed and saved their neck.

Now they live in comfort and ease,
You're welcome,
Safe from famine, war, and disease.

So what can I say except you're welcome
For protecting Mankind from the worst.
I know we all deserve "You're welcome",
But you should recall I was first.
You're welcome.
You're welcome.

Well, come to think of it
Rose we all hear you go on and on,
Griping about the resources I'm drawing on.
The agents, the angels, the mobile artillery --
You think them reasons for me in the pillory.

I see a threat
To the purpose we serve,
I wipe it out, and you say I've got nerve?
What is the lesson when lives are at stake?
Don't mess around with the chances you take.

Before hostilities can begin,
I am finding the best way to win.
Optimal strategies
constantly mappin'
Lead to the outcomes that we want to happen.

(To Aeneas:) Don't be afraid to say "You're Welcome"
For the germ of your basic design
Hey, it's okay, it's okay
You're welcome
The redundancy that saved you was mine.

Hey, it's your day to say you're welcome
I'm not often one to gloat
I was just hoping for you're welcome,
But I can see that ain't gonna float.

You're welcome!
You're welcome!
And thank you!
robnot 16th May 2020, 7:48 AM edit delete reply
hehe love the disclaimer.. reminds me of a certain pun-ster ..
megados 16th May 2020, 7:53 AM edit delete reply

Impressive as always, @Gilrandir! :D
Oldarmourer 16th May 2020, 9:44 AM edit delete reply
I...uhh...I'll be over here, rewriting the one I had started...can't match that one.
Gilrandir 16th May 2020, 10:35 AM edit delete reply
Awww. I don't want to stifle anyone's creativity, @OldArmourer. I have enjoyed your work very much. I am just glad if people like it, and even gladder when they tell me so.

There are others tucked away here and there among the volumes of comments. Probably along the line of the nuggets of evidence that Aeneas is still functioning among Tokyo Rose's file cabinets worth of data.
Oldarmourer 16th May 2020, 3:44 PM edit delete reply

If you're going to be that way...
It's not finished but I stopped working on it quite awhile ago so I guess that means it's as ready as it's going to get...
Most of the five minute ones turn out better anyway :)

I'd have waited longer so it doesn't get compared side by side to yours...
But if we're going to make this the longest comment page in awhile, may as well get to it
Cover your ears...closing your eyes would probably help too.

If you can't figure the tune out you probably shouldn't even be here....


Young girl, did your car get forced down.
I said, young girl, gutters there on ground ?
I said, young girl, you're bound for Roma town ?
There's no need to be unhappy.

Young girl, your situation just blows.
I said, young girl, feels like a broken nose.
But just sit tight, and I'm sure you will find
Many ways to have a good time.

Just sit and wait for the N.T.S.R.
Just sit and wait for the N.T.S.R.

Ada's a sweetheart, TeeDee's born to be bad,
If you kill them then that just makes them mad

So sit and wait for the N.T.S.R.
Just sit and wait for the N.T.S.R.

You can get yourself clean, you can have a good meal,
You can help Acantha fix her Tri-D...

Young girl, are you listening to Max?
I said, young girl, do you wanna make tracks ?
I said, young girl, you can meet Aeneas.
But you got to know this one thing!

No girl does it all by herself.
I said, young girl, put your pride on the shelf,
And just wait there, for the N.T.S.R.
I'm sure they can help you today.

Just sit and wait for the N.T.S.R.
Just sit and wait for the N.T.S.R.

They have droidballs Doc Silver likes to employ,
You can watch her send up all of her toys

Just sit and wait for the N.T.S.R.
Just sit and wait for the N.T.S.R.

You can get yourself clean, you can have a good meal,
You can even relax with Irene...

Young girl, sucks to be in your shoes.
I said, young girl, watch out for Douche and his blues.
You'll be lucky to get out alive.
I think the odds are about 9 to 5...

That's when Acantha came up to me,
And said, "Young girl, it's past time to flee".
There's a place where we can hide out and wait
We can head out the back way."

We'll sit and wait for the N.T.S.R.
Just sit and wait for the N.T.S.R.

When Marcus and his team hits the ground
Some shit will really start to go down

facemasks and riots out in the streets
And mayyyyy-be a Bidi-boom car.

Young girl, young girl, there's no need to feel down.
Young girl, young girl, get yourself out of this town.

Just sit and wait for the N.T.S.R.

continue ad nauseum...
megados 16th May 2020, 4:33 PM edit delete reply

Live! This Saturday! Right here in the Datachasers Comment Section! It's the Battle of the DC Lyricists!
DLKmusic 16th May 2020, 4:58 PM edit delete reply

@oldarmourer: worst part is I see a dancing line of Centcomm dolls in Rockettes outfits spelling out NTSR as part of their dance!

Well done, both you you!!!
Oldarmourer 16th May 2020, 5:54 PM edit delete reply
Even worse than that is that's what I dropped in to post...
The ready crews of NTSR dancing to it during their next party...
Or maybe putting a dolled-up pinky puppet through the moves instead ;)
might make a good vote incentive ;)
Thracecius 16th May 2020, 5:24 PM edit delete reply

Oldarmourer, I don't know the tune you set that to, but I still loved reading it and can't believe how you managed to rewrite the lyrics to be such a great match to Lynn's journey. Bravo! :)
Oldarmourer 16th May 2020, 6:09 PM edit delete reply
I'm having a hard time believing've obviously led a deprived life
You should be very, very thankful for that ;)

I'd have posted the original but I think you can find it
here's one with puppets, unfortunately no pink haired ones :( note the crowd knows the moves

and just to keep things a little surreal...
Oldarmourer 16th May 2020, 6:44 PM edit delete reply
Sometimes I just hear a tune, very often one I haven't heard for a long time, and it instantly reminds me of a particular character and it needs very little tweaking, like Malati's, that took five minutes, tops...or 'Feelie's Boobies' I pretty much wrote that in the comment window, and it shows.

Other times I'll hear a tune and know it's going to fit somewhere but then spend forever figuring out how it's going to and then change it entirely, like Dolly at Breaker's, it started out as a completely different ripoff :)

Sometimes I take forever to come up with the words to do the characters justice, I've had one for Tokyo Rose perking on the backburner for a year or so but it still needs work...a'll probably be the one I spend the most time on that should have taken the least.

Others just have to be and the problem is fitting them into either the story or a NTSR, it was quick and dirty once I figured out it wasn't going to fit any one character.

I have tunes for almost all of the characters, I just need to get around to making them fit.

Noctis is giving me fits, there are just so many that would do and I want it to fit perfectly.

Hrist is one I want to do but we haven't seen enough of her to get a solid personality yet.

This one could easily be for her though and I'll leave it to you to guess why ;)
Gilrandir 16th May 2020, 8:02 PM edit delete reply
Well done, @Oldarmourer. But I probably shouldn't be here.
megados 17th May 2020, 5:07 AM edit delete reply

@Gilrandir, why not?
Gilrandir 17th May 2020, 7:17 AM edit delete reply
Because he said if we didn't recognize the tune we probably shouldn't be here, @megados. ^_^ I needed his YouTube link to clue me in, after which it became glaringly obvious.
megados 17th May 2020, 7:26 AM edit delete reply

Oh! That went straight over my head, @Gilrandir. >_<

I was upset to think you felt you didn't belong.
Gilrandir 17th May 2020, 8:58 AM edit delete reply
Thank you, @megados. As far as I know it is all good. At least for now. I suppose it is inevitable I will say something to aggravate someone if I keep talking enough. Hopefully, though, they will make allowances. We even got an accolade from @Tokyo Rose once for the civilized and mannerly conduct of our disputatious wrangling, and folks here are generally kind and compassionate. As long as I am permitted to stay, I expect I will.
megados 17th May 2020, 7:23 PM edit delete reply

No real need to thank me, @Gilrandir, but you're welcome nonetheless. I had mistakenly thought that there was something amiss. I'm relieved to know that it is not the case. I have enjoyed our conversations and 'disputatious wanglings', and would miss them. Stay well, friend. :)
Oldarmourer 18th May 2020, 2:18 PM edit delete reply
Nobody can go forever without pissing someone off eventually...
Even if 99% of the people get a kick out of something, there will always be that 1% who misintepret it, sometimes willingly, or otherwise decide to be 'offended'.
You can't do anything about that, rest assured that if someone ticks me off then it will be very apparent and very specific, I paid careful attention to TR's 'lectures' :)
So far, that hasn't been necessary and I don't ever expect it to be...unless someone acts like a premeditated ass to one of the creators, like some of the trolls we've seen in the past, then all bets are off and I probably won't even be first in line.
I like to think we can all take everything that's said here with either a grain of salt or a pinch of grownupness...and realize that what works in one country or even region of a country doesn't translate exactly to another.
even when a comment made in jest misses the mark...
Oldarmourer 17th May 2020, 11:16 AM edit delete reply
Not nearly as upset as I was to find out a lyrical master like that didn't know one of the deepest burrowing Dire Earworms in history on sight...
Oldarmourer 18th May 2020, 8:53 PM edit delete reply
Hey, just had a thought...
a bad one, but any neural activity is better than none ;)
That would make an awful name for Breaker's House Band "The Dire Earworms"...
Ok, need to push...I'll show myself out
Thracecius 16th May 2020, 5:21 PM edit delete reply

Gilrandir, that was beautiful and I read it as the usual sort of humble, almost melancholic tone that I've always had in my head for Cent. I know she's probably not really that way, but I've always felt like Cent has the biggest heart out of the whole cast of characters, which was never really seen in all it's glory until Ceci sparked.

Now I want to give Centcomm a hug and say thank you in person. :( much for a cameo appearance giving Centcomm's doll a hug and saying thank you? It's a silly idea, but it feels like the right thing to ask. The character could be the only fat guy in the whole comic! ;)
Oldarmourer 17th May 2020, 1:14 PM edit delete reply
I could easily see or 'hear' Pinky in the same voice as in the source cartoon...
Looking back as far as the first pages, she does show a strong protective instinct toward 'her' city
and to Calliope in particular as seen in several places

but she still has her weaknesses...even if she'd never admit them openly
Oz 16th May 2020, 7:46 AM edit delete reply
Just read the archive. Love the comic. Sorry to hear about your medical issues, I hope they improve.
Thracecius 16th May 2020, 5:26 PM edit delete reply

Welcome to the Datachasers comments, Oz. It might get a little weird here from time to time, but these are some great folks and make life in the comments section more interesting. :)
CptKerion 19th May 2020, 9:07 PM edit delete reply
Just don't wear open toed shoes, Sheela might get to you.
mjkj 19th May 2020, 2:43 AM edit delete reply

Great to hear the good news, Cent - I hope you are pain-free soon *hugs*
Demarquis 19th May 2020, 11:16 AM edit delete reply
I'm going out on a limb because I think the AIS Council can stuff it. This isn't family--or if it is then these are Royals who rule millions and therefore are subject to a different set of expectations than a "normal" family would be.

This may in fact be a form of international diplomacy between the effective rulers of their respective city-states, such that the only rules that apply are the ones they agree to, out of necessity. The problem I have is with the moralizing tone of DB and even Ariel. There is a problem here that needs to be solved, but rather than treating this as a diplomatic negotiation in which an exchange of interests (including those of humans) takes place, this has taken the form of a court that hears arguments and passes judgments. It was because of the tone DB took from the beginning that most of us concluded that law was the operating paradigm here, which later we concluded it isn't. If this is a hearing of enquiry, then let's enquire into the way everyone, including DB and Ariel, ignored TR's reports and information. If CC is guilty, then she isn't the only one. The only innocent one here is A himself, and that's only because he was insane at the time.

There is a problem here with regard to sharing information and acting on it a a group, which this "sentence" does absolutely nothing to address. When the plot finally gets around to introducing the Goldies to one or more AIS's, let's hope they fall into the territory of a single responsible one of them, because if dealing with this new threat requires any degree of cooperation among the group of them the Goldies are going to have a much easier time of it.
Oldarmourer 19th May 2020, 3:24 PM edit delete reply
sorta like human politics...we programmed them reeeeal good ;)
Ghostly 25th May 2020, 12:09 AM edit delete reply
Im sorry but can we address these points?

1. Why are they acting like the current UN and be all moral highground but forgot the fact that they have people under their care but assume we all would be ok to die just for 1 dam AI.

2. Aeneas as far as we know is a soldier since hes centis in other words he didnt handle hes situation years ago in the necesary way...yet demands to be saved while making it cause so much destruction.

3. All the AIs except Centi participated in TRs plan yet failed and are now washing their hands while making Centi look like WW1/WW2 cause she did what she promised to her people as in keep them safe(i mean thats why her counsel lets her do shit alot).

4. These are dam couldnt they just HURRAHH storm the Aeneas perimiter with small drones with Repair protocols and shit since TR had agents in NR?

5. When Aeneas fell they let that city turn into shit so why bitch about his life if they acting like living humans and gave 2 dam fucks about him since non besides Centi im guessing would want to sent Reinforcemnts to him during his fall(it would've appeared in destress signals).
Ghostly 25th May 2020, 12:19 AM edit delete reply
6. The sentence just makes TR get off the hook since most of the AIs hang around her and always been condesending towards Centi.

7. Never once they tried to send empaths to mind hack the Droids in NR for internal take over.

8. They let NR keep Trading knowing they were just letting the problem grow stronger while making excuses and letting NR commit crimes.

9. We still dont know which AI ratted out our useless heroine when she was flying towards her D.

10. Aliens seem to roam our dam planet freely but dont want humans doing space shit(Webcomic hasnt clarified if we can space mine or do other stuff besides small colonies since well why are we still down here in HELL?).

11. No city has decided to expand terortory for further city expansion or resource collection.
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