Comic 1709 - Further Insights

18th Aug 2021, 12:00 AM
Further Insights
Average Rating: 5 (11 votes)
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Ryu Santos 18th Aug 2021, 12:10 AM edit delete reply

Oh boy, this is going to cause some consern in Nova Roma.
hiddeninjafist 18th Aug 2021, 12:27 AM edit delete reply
she has been identified as the chaplain among the casipians so they may already know and be okay/not care about it
HiFranc 18th Aug 2021, 1:40 AM edit delete reply

If she has an official title, I would say they are more than OK with it.
Just_IDD 18th Aug 2021, 2:11 AM edit delete reply
I think the title is only Within the Cassian ranks, since Noctis described her as 'Our Chaplin.' After the events of being controlled it may have becomes necessary to understand conceptually their place. They decided one was needed for their role, and developed it adhoc, however still in line with military tradition.

That would essentially bring the position into force, and prevent anyone from gainsaying what it should entail. Because of their separate tradition they would need their own separate Chaplin and couldn't use one from another service for a bunch of different reasons.

Too bad they're Chaplin couldn't have been Charlie Chaplin.
Just_IDD 18th Aug 2021, 2:12 AM edit delete reply
Oldarmourer 19th Aug 2021, 12:26 PM edit delete reply
I sort of think they say "our chaplain" in the same way they would say "our CO" or "our barracks", meaning she's part of their group but could as easily minister in a chaplaincy to any other, the same as a military chaplain today who might be transferred through any number of Units during a career.
From what we've seen so far, Samanta is definitely a Cassian and performs Cassian combat duties the same as any other, she just happens to have 'chaplain' as her secondary duty.
An infantry soldier might become a chaplain, and many have, but a chaplain doesn't necessarily have to be an infamtry soldier and the vast majority aren't. Samanta seems to be both.
mjkj 18th Aug 2021, 1:21 AM edit delete reply

Nice, virtual attendence...
Deanatay 19th Aug 2021, 9:16 PM edit delete reply
Not the first time we've seen it...
HiFranc 18th Aug 2021, 2:03 AM edit delete reply

In reply to the mouse over text, I am reminded of these pages: and the next.
robnot 18th Aug 2021, 5:30 PM edit delete reply
thanks... i just re-dived about a hundred pages.. before i realized it... o.0
megados 18th Aug 2021, 4:59 AM edit delete reply

The distinction between synth-brain, and positronics becomes clearer. It's interesting to note, that he mentions Samanta's combat modifications, and the application of "combat mode". He further suggests that she enter the combat-mode state without engaging the combat protocols, to be able to enter a meditative trance. Does that mean that non-combat, or other androids without special modes, have a lesser ability to be able to partake in this type of meditation?

Thought provoking!
Some Ed 18th Aug 2021, 7:17 PM edit delete reply
It's my impression that androids who lack a combat mode would still be able to partake in this meditation and probably to the same extent. However, much like with trained human soldiers, those with a combat mode have a short-cut to the learning exercise, since they had to go through training or otherwise received programming that required a similar state of mind.

Source: I've been in meditation groups which typically gained members in ones and twos. Veterans were less common as new members, but when they joined the group, the instructor would give them a semantically similar introduction as described above. When non-combatants with no prior meditation experience joined the group, they were taken aside and given one on one coaching for the first few weeks.

I'm not sure what that one on one coaching entailed; I did not have combat experience, but I had meditation experience before joining the first of those groups. My first experiences were in a group introduction to meditation that seemed similar to the Gunnerkrigg Court linked above.

However, we had a tree. Sort of. I'm not sure if the proper term is sapling or sprout or something else. Sapling feels like a word for a somewhat bigger tree. It was at the stage where we were listening to the sound of the wind through the leaf of the tree. To be honest, the sound of the wind through the grass was louder, but not nearly as loud as the construction vehicles that were working much further away, but we were supposed to not focus on the construction noises. Meditation wasn't easy at first, I had too much code running through my head.
megados 19th Aug 2021, 5:03 AM edit delete reply

That makes sense. What an android with additional modes might achieve easily, one who does not have those, could, through proper training, could also achieve.
Oldarmourer 18th Aug 2021, 8:19 AM edit delete reply
Still can't get rid of that nagging feeling that he's going to end up being exposed as a 60's style 'swami' and 'you have to shed your clothes to open your mind' ;)
But I suppose that doesn't matter so much to AI's...
I sincerely hope they attain something that satisfies their personal needs for spiritual calm on an inner level but I guess I've just watched too many people get taken in by fast talking 'pray for pay' con artists to be less than cynical.
Some Ed 18th Aug 2021, 10:11 PM edit delete reply
It's my gut feeling that any fast talker is probably not someone I'd trust for meditation guidance. That having been said, I've run into my share of slow talking con artists as well. It's less about the speed of conversation, and more that they're ready for any challenge to their credibility, while not actually having a product that is available for market, and they're not even working on developing one.

That said, I doubt that Zero would be able to get away with that for any length of time here. I mean, I don't think Centcomm would let him get away with that in her city in her comic, you know? New Troy has enough stuff going on they certainly need to have some mental, emotional, and/or spiritual therapy in the city, and it makes sense to show that in the comic.

In any event, if Zero is somehow a con artist, attempting to pull that on an important foreigner who has at least some attention from the reigning AIS is probably not a good way to stay one step ahead of law enforcement. I mean, sure, Centcomm may not dictate everything in her city, but she knows what is against the law, how to report crimes, and where every law enforcement officer is in the city...
Oldarmourer 19th Aug 2021, 12:31 PM edit delete reply
The best 'fast talkers' speak slowly, calmly and with complete confidence.
They can look you in the eye, smile and tell you complete bullshit in themost convincing manner.
The 'fire and brimstone' pulpit pounders scam their cash from the people who expect that sort of thing and want to hear it.
The always smiling honey-tongued con artists do the same thing to those who expect that.
The upshot is they both firmly believe that you have their money in your pocket and they want !!
No matter what happens in the 'service' the plate still gets passed around...
"I want to hear paper flow...coins we do not need"
Oldarmourer 19th Aug 2021, 12:33 PM edit delete reply
And they all have limousines, mansions and private jets while preaching that you don't need anything of your own...
Some Ed 20th Aug 2021, 6:41 AM edit delete reply
They do not all have those things... yet.

The slow talker that I was specifically thinking of when I wrote my above comment was an example. She was certainly living it up more than a lot of the people she preyed upon, but did not get the sort of success you think they all get before she was caught.

Of course, that was then, and a lot of time has passed since then. It's likely that she's moved around a few times, refined her pitch, and gotten those things by this point.
megados 20th Aug 2021, 8:10 PM edit delete reply

No disrespect, but throughout the whole conversation, I can't help but think that Zero is being a genuine 'spirit' and no deception or subterfuge is present. I totally understand cynicism; I have a certain amount of it myself, but I can't allow myself to apply that to every situation I see. Here, I see Zero as offering a genuine chance at enlightenment.
Oldarmourer 23rd Aug 2021, 5:48 PM edit delete reply
I intended to contrast Zero's introspective outlook against modern 'preachers' rather than suggest ulterior motives, guess I messed that up.
Oldarmourer 23rd Aug 2021, 5:49 PM edit delete reply
That and preempt any plot twist by suggesting he might have a deeper programming ;)
megados 18th Aug 2021, 4:35 PM edit delete reply

The virtual space Zero speaks of, sounds kind of like The Glen, or Unimatrix Zero.
Gilrandir 18th Aug 2021, 6:57 PM edit delete reply
I get the impression that what Zero is talking about is much more akin to what we heard about earlier at sites like Founder's Park.
Some Ed 18th Aug 2021, 10:16 PM edit delete reply
I think The Glen and Unimatrix Zero both sound a lot like Founder's Park. I believe at one point I had the idea that they were actually all kind of the same space, just different layers of it. I'm not sure where I got that idea.
Gilrandir 18th Aug 2021, 10:42 PM edit delete reply
Well, we know that the Church of the First Circuit and Founder's Park have a tangible, physical location. So, they are definitely NOT the same place overlaid on different levels of cyberspace.

I don't even remember "Unimatrix Zero" being introduced here in Datachasers. Isn't that a Star Trek: Voyager thing? The Glen could, I suppose, be a completely virtual space -- existing everywhere the Web reaches and nowhere at all. Like a VR version of an Internet Chat Room, or a Second Life server. But that seems to have very little to do with what Zero is describing.
megados 19th Aug 2021, 4:59 AM edit delete reply

Yes, Unimatrix Zero is a Star Trek Voyager concept. I included it as a frame of reference; it was not introduced in the DC universe. Founder's Park could be considered another frame of reference as well.

I included Unimatrix Zero, because it's a purely virtual space, and the Church's physical space seen here is described as "merely a vestibule", which gave me the impression he meant that the virtual space was not one and the same.
Rashala 18th Aug 2021, 11:06 PM edit delete reply

Metaphysics and comparative cybernetic anatomy. We're getting loaded on lore, that probably will impact the upcoming, hunt nightmare if I was a. Ettinger intelligence
WitUnderPressure 20th Aug 2021, 8:16 PM edit delete reply

A bit of trivia:

The word "hash" referring to drugs came from an old word referring to assassins. They were called hashishi, I think, and would use hash before starting out on missions.

If any part of this is wrong, please do correct me. I can't remember where I got this info, so I can't say for certain that I didn't get something wrong.
megados 20th Aug 2021, 8:34 PM edit delete reply

I can neither confirm, nor deny. I can find no etymological reference. The only direct reference I saw for 'hashishi' was a reference to a slang term for 'weed'.
Gilrandir 20th Aug 2021, 8:39 PM edit delete reply
I believe, @WitUnderPressure, you have the order reversed — the name of the drug provides the root for the name of the role. (Reference here.) Because the members of the Order of Assassins were commonly believed to make regular and ritualized use of the drug. Of course, as with almost all things far enough back in history, there is plenty of room for argument and debate about the ‘true course of events’.

And @Megados, try searching for “hashish”, not “hashishi”. There’s a Wikipedia page for that, too. ^_^
Morituri 20th Aug 2021, 9:15 PM edit delete reply
Given the cognitive impairment that goes with excessive partaking in Hashish, I am quite startled that using it when setting out on missions of assassination could become a regular thing. It would seem to me that it would almost guarantee the mission somehow going awry as the assassin became fascinated by a weird colorful bug or something.
megados 21st Aug 2021, 5:54 AM edit delete reply

@Gilrandir, yes I saw that; I was looking specifically for 'hashishi', because I had never heard of that term.
Oldarmourer 23rd Aug 2021, 4:32 PM edit delete reply
Try looking for 'hashassain'
My experiences with people under various stages of influence say to me that marijuana should be put in the canteens in prisons, first you lose interest in fighting and then you forget how, a win-win.

Hash on the other hand very often hits faster and harder and too much too fast can bypass the 'quietly stoned and happy' phase entirely and instead not only remove any inhibitions toward fighting but drop any consideration for consequences and dull pain to boot.
The problem with legalized marijuana, as we see it today, is that nobody wants the "put on a pink floyd album then nod and giggle and munch cookies with a big grin on your face" variety from the 70's that everyone thinks dope is, they want the 'dankest' strongest 'fuck you up the fastest' breed that can be grown and it goes from 'hey man, don't harsh my groove' to 'what the fuck are you lookin' at ?' faster than Jack Daniels ever dreamed of.
'Hashassains' knew this and used hashish so they could do their job of killing people more effectively, not to chase rainbows and eat chips.
Morituri 20th Aug 2021, 9:22 PM edit delete reply
"You may find their perspectives illuminating" he says. Hooo boy. And her perspective as well, given that she's been made with an enforced destiny that requires her to regularly hunt down and kill criminals, and sometimes to assassinate people.

We are all part of the great dream of the almighty, but the almighty alone knows which of us are nightmares.
megados 22nd Aug 2021, 6:36 PM edit delete reply

Odds are that she will find enough different perspectives, that taken collectively the experience would be illuminating. Samanta will be bringing a perspective of her own, as well. The Cassians have rather unique perspectives. They all have their own personalities, but they are all bound to a common service, enforced by inhibitor. High-level slaves, so-to-speak. They have inherent loyalty to the Cassian sisterhood steeped into their initial programing. It stands to reason that getting perspectives from possibly more free-thinking, less restrained personas might be intriguing, and enlightening.
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